Marconi. Thank you very much. Those look like what I am needing. And I hear you about centering the Gamma between the radials. I have gone so far as to really straighten everything. Just like straightening arrows. The radial lengths have been a concern. 81.5" 90" shorter longer. Back in the day using a midland 13-895 ssb I was hitting Australia, Germany, etc. from Oregon, it did pretty good for an omni and 4 watts when conditions were right. had fun want get back into it. I am going to go over it with what you sent me here when I get home this evening. Thanks again.
-
You can now help support WorldwideDX when you shop on Amazon at no additional cost to you! Simply follow this Shop on Amazon link first and a portion of any purchase is sent to WorldwideDX to help with site costs.
Vector 4000 won't even calibrate to set swr
- Thread starter sunsound
- Start date
When you tried it, how long was the top element? If your antenna is the one noted in this manual, then I would like to know how long the overall top element is in total and is it tubing or rod?
The only reason I want to know is because the sheet is the product of another, and I don't know the truth about the 47.2" length noted for the tip. I would like to know if it is close or not for 11 meters. I'm also assuming that the rest of the antenna is fixed, including the radials which were intended to be screwed together as well.
The gamma match was also from a user and I just measured to his marks as installed. I don't know what frequency he was using, but he was working ssb at the time, so it would likely be around 36-40.
Last edited:
marconi, just got home from work. you are right the screws were sheet metal but i replaced everything with SS and i put two additional screws on each side at the joints so now there are 4 at the joints. took down the antenna pulled the whip which is tubing (corrugated). the whip itself is 47 1/4 inches long. total length of my main radiator measured from the bottom of the tab on the lower ring that the connector goes into was set at 29' 7-1/4". length without the whip is 25' 11-3/4'. my radials are 81.5" length for the gamma match bracket i took directly off of the NEW Vector instructions 930mm. another ? am i fighting against my self by putting the base of the ant into another pipe hose clamped on and then using that to mount to the mast. Maybe i am just being really stupid here. it's the only way i can do it with my back. you mount the tube loosely on the mast and then push everything straight up and tighten the u-bolts and that gets the base up to 23'. and that puts me above most everything somewhat close by. the radials do not screw together as such they slide and then use the set screw on the end of the spreaders
Last edited:
The 47.2" handwritten on the manual is 120 cm converted to 47.25" inches, so it did not represent the length to set for CB.
I'm also not sure about the measurements you gave us for your gamma. You note you used the setting for the New Vector @ 930 mm or 36.7". My measurement was 35.5" from the bottom of the gamma to the top edge of the dog bone connector I think. You will have to think about the gamma and try what you think best.
The New Vector 4000 is much shorter than your antenna and the radials are much longer, and I'm not sure that 81.5" is long enough. My radials are 91.25" long, but that might not be what your antenna should have. The New Vector radials are about 106" I think. I discuss a scheme on the radials that CTE touches on in this regard below.
I just realized why the manual I sent you has the dimension (cm90/35.5") from the spreaders up to the bottom of the hoop, because if you set that dimension correctly, it will give you the proper length for their radials. The top portion probably goes down inside the bottom portion just a bit before the set screw secures them together, both being inside to the radial support tip. You'll have to look closely at this idea and think about it if you don't understand my words here.
This antenna was pretty much plug and play, just like the New Vector and the New Top One, as far as the length of radiator and radials are concerned.
Like I said earlier, the top element is the only thing to move up or down to set the length you want, and according to Bob85 and others on this forum, they will tell you that you can tune the frequency you want, for any particular length within reason, just by adjusting the gamma dog bone space and the gamma rod length. This is not too different a procedure than the New Vector instructions shows, however the numbers may be different, due to different construction. So you will have to figure that out as well.
The gamma I used to take the images was from a CTE Vector, and the marks on it were left from the owner using that tar type coax seal tape. When removed it leaves a dark stain and that suggests where it was set. You might try those measurements and see it you get a better match.
Did you check to see if your feed point showed good?
How did you come to the overall length that you used originally? Did you go by some marks on the antenna? If so, and it worked for you before, then it should work now. But IMO, you must get the radials right first and I think they are way too short.
Do you see the radial bending a bit. They probably should be perfectly straight within reason and this is due to the construction idea they use. This is the reason they give you the dimension for the radial supports up to the bottom of the hoop, and before now I never understood why they would give you that seemingly unimportant dimension.
BTW, I have sold this antenna before and got several bad reports about the thing acting bad, but I always thought it was due to bad construction when installed, and now I'm sure of that.
Good luck and keep us posted...and thanks for helping me understand an issue that has alluded me for years. Most guys would have run away mad on being questioned, so thanks.
Marconi
I did reset my radials to the 35.5 that was in the manual although i measured to the top of the hoop so i will have to redo that tomorrow, it's dark now... feed point checks good. will recheck gamma also and start dropping the whip little by little. too bad i can't check it while it is horizontal sure would be easier. thanks again for all the help. if my radials are the right length now i should be able to tune it in
i had those numbers also for the gamma dog bone. i measured bottom of ring to bottom of d.b. i basically had 36 5/8"
my gamma for L2 was 25"
my tip length, i was always going for total to try and match a wavelength at 7/8, 3/4, maybe i should try 5/8 if those don't work tomorrow.
what is the correct way to measure it? i have always measured from the bottom of the ring.
so, if my radials are correct, and my gamma is in range, then i would try to set my main radiator at 30ft 1-9/32 inches to get a 7/8 wave radiator.
which seems to be what the basic length of this antenna is.
my gamma for L2 was 25"
my tip length, i was always going for total to try and match a wavelength at 7/8, 3/4, maybe i should try 5/8 if those don't work tomorrow.
what is the correct way to measure it? i have always measured from the bottom of the ring.
so, if my radials are correct, and my gamma is in range, then i would try to set my main radiator at 30ft 1-9/32 inches to get a 7/8 wave radiator.
which seems to be what the basic length of this antenna is.
Like I said earlier, Bob says you can set the length to any reasonable length between 27' x" and 31.5" an tune the frequency you want by adjusting the gamma rod and dog bone, but I would think you have to get close first...before you start to experiment. You should at least be able to get past the no-load problem without raising the antenna up and then go from there. You can test the antenna laying flat on insulated support, but the tune will be more affected by the Earth. It'll likely change on you when you raise it up.
The main think to remember is the gamma rod, on this one, will bottom out and complete the circuit, which is not good. I tested mine, and I think that is what likely happened in your case.
I still think your radials are likely the most important dimension you need to fix. If this manual is the right one, then the bottom of the hoop should be installed at a point that is the full length of the bottom section, plus 35.5" for the top section however that works out in overall inches.
The no-load problem is not due to the way you mounted the antenna, so forget that.
The main think to remember is the gamma rod, on this one, will bottom out and complete the circuit, which is not good. I tested mine, and I think that is what likely happened in your case.
I still think your radials are likely the most important dimension you need to fix. If this manual is the right one, then the bottom of the hoop should be installed at a point that is the full length of the bottom section, plus 35.5" for the top section however that works out in overall inches.
The no-load problem is not due to the way you mounted the antenna, so forget that.
Last edited:
reset the radials with the 35.5 to bottom of hoop.
chose 30ft 1-9/32" for 27.205mhz, chl 20 on CB for 7/8 wave as starting point
Gamma is not bottomed out, lots of room each way.
moving the gamma dog bone up will do what? effect higher freq.? i presume lowering it would do the opposite.
do i leave the g. rod the same length if I move the dog bone?
chose 30ft 1-9/32" for 27.205mhz, chl 20 on CB for 7/8 wave as starting point
Gamma is not bottomed out, lots of room each way.
moving the gamma dog bone up will do what? effect higher freq.? i presume lowering it would do the opposite.
do i leave the g. rod the same length if I move the dog bone?
Last edited:
If you make the dog bone space wider the frequency goes down, but the rod also affects the reactance and you will have to play with that in order to tell which side of reactance you are on with your first try. I don't think you can really go by the exact figures for the New Vector manual, but it will give you the general idea.
Have you tried checking the match with the antenna laying on some non-conductive support off the ground? If so, are you still getting a no load indication with your SWR meter after you fixed the radial length?
Do you have your bottom hub up 17" from the base?
Is your dog bone straight or does it have angle from the radiator to the gamma rod?
Last edited:
Bottom ring was not 17" changed that. All my radials are now 35.5" from spreader. Main radiator is now just under 29" have it laying down on a couple of plastic patio chairs stretched out across the top of the roof. Just getting ready to start checking and tweaking
lying on plastic patio chairs there is now a 1.2:1 swr across the board. But, the gamma rod is almost bottomed out and the dog bone is moved higher to where the end of the gamma rod is about the middle of the dog bone. But ive got swr
First off I have to say Thanks for all of the quick responses to help. Lot's of information for a new guy and not a lot of B.S. Thanks again ever so much.
The results of a day spent on the roof with the antenna stretched out across the roof on a couple of plastic patio chairs. Don't know why I did not take any pictures.
First I took a mobile Midland 13-893, a power supply, jumpers and two different swr meters up on the roof and plugged everything in.
From the bottom of the first section to the set screw on the bottom ring 17"
Started out full length on radiator 28ft 9-1/2"
From the bottom of the radial tubes to the top of the hoop 7ft.
Gamma match varied a lot, started with 35-1/2" from from bottom of the tube where it attaches to the connector to the top of the dog bone. End of gamma rod was 3-3/4" from center of dog bone.
I started out by moving the Gamma match up and down by as much as 1/2" in small increments and checking my readings each time. Either way did not make a difference. I could at least get a set on the meter and see what I had as a SW.
It was right up there close to the set position itself.
BUT I HAD SOMETHING!
Started bringing the tip in and it started coming down.
Got down to about 26" 8" and it wanted to go back up.
Started playing with the Gamma again and got it to come down to my low of 2.1.
OK, take the tip out a little, starts to go down, a little more, goes down more ok, keep going, wind up with tip of radiator back at starting point. 28' 9-1/2".
SWR Chnl. 20 was 1.3-1.5
try going out with gamma, it goes up.
ok, go in, it goes down...1.2-1.3 with the gamma rod almost all the way to the bottom and the very end of the rod centered at the bolt hole to tighten it down. Now, I know you must be thinking...he did not try moving the dog bone...am I right. Guess again. Every step I took I tried all the combination's to see what was going on. If it did nothing it was back to where it was, and on to the next.
Said that was close enough for rock and roll.
U-bolted it onto about a 6' pipe and then put that onto the EMT conduit tubing I am using as a mast with u-bolts and then slid it all up as far as I could and cranked down the nuts.
Came in the house, set up same stuff and checked for SWR. 1.1-1 all across.
First transmission and first come back was 23 miles away.
Second transmission and second come back hailed me about 50 miles. I think I am doing alright.
Does not seem right but it is working for me...measuring from the bottom of the bend on the gamma tube to the top of the dog bone is 2' 10 3/4" with the rod almost bottomed out and it's tip right at the bolt hole to tighten it.
Thanks again, Marconi the info you sent and provided was a god send, it really helped get some parameters in order. Thanks again.
I am not going to touch it.
I will admit it was a beautiful day here in Oregon. Great day to spend on the roof away from the hustle and bustle in the house (if you know what I mean).
Funny how that two hour job trying to include problems turns out to be all day as you explain things to the wife as to what you have to do.
Anyway that is my experience with what we believe to be an old CTE Intn'l Saliut mod. LW 150
Thanks again for all the help.
The results of a day spent on the roof with the antenna stretched out across the roof on a couple of plastic patio chairs. Don't know why I did not take any pictures.
First I took a mobile Midland 13-893, a power supply, jumpers and two different swr meters up on the roof and plugged everything in.
From the bottom of the first section to the set screw on the bottom ring 17"
Started out full length on radiator 28ft 9-1/2"
From the bottom of the radial tubes to the top of the hoop 7ft.
Gamma match varied a lot, started with 35-1/2" from from bottom of the tube where it attaches to the connector to the top of the dog bone. End of gamma rod was 3-3/4" from center of dog bone.
I started out by moving the Gamma match up and down by as much as 1/2" in small increments and checking my readings each time. Either way did not make a difference. I could at least get a set on the meter and see what I had as a SW.
It was right up there close to the set position itself.
BUT I HAD SOMETHING!
Started bringing the tip in and it started coming down.
Got down to about 26" 8" and it wanted to go back up.
Started playing with the Gamma again and got it to come down to my low of 2.1.
OK, take the tip out a little, starts to go down, a little more, goes down more ok, keep going, wind up with tip of radiator back at starting point. 28' 9-1/2".
SWR Chnl. 20 was 1.3-1.5
try going out with gamma, it goes up.
ok, go in, it goes down...1.2-1.3 with the gamma rod almost all the way to the bottom and the very end of the rod centered at the bolt hole to tighten it down. Now, I know you must be thinking...he did not try moving the dog bone...am I right. Guess again. Every step I took I tried all the combination's to see what was going on. If it did nothing it was back to where it was, and on to the next.
Said that was close enough for rock and roll.
U-bolted it onto about a 6' pipe and then put that onto the EMT conduit tubing I am using as a mast with u-bolts and then slid it all up as far as I could and cranked down the nuts.
Came in the house, set up same stuff and checked for SWR. 1.1-1 all across.
First transmission and first come back was 23 miles away.
Second transmission and second come back hailed me about 50 miles. I think I am doing alright.
Does not seem right but it is working for me...measuring from the bottom of the bend on the gamma tube to the top of the dog bone is 2' 10 3/4" with the rod almost bottomed out and it's tip right at the bolt hole to tighten it.
Thanks again, Marconi the info you sent and provided was a god send, it really helped get some parameters in order. Thanks again.
I am not going to touch it.
I will admit it was a beautiful day here in Oregon. Great day to spend on the roof away from the hustle and bustle in the house (if you know what I mean).
Funny how that two hour job trying to include problems turns out to be all day as you explain things to the wife as to what you have to do.
Anyway that is my experience with what we believe to be an old CTE Intn'l Saliut mod. LW 150
Thanks again for all the help.
NO! the dog bone they're referring to is the plastic bracket that hold the vertical basket in position.
Even kiki would have known that.
