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what is the best beam for dx?

wavrider said:
I ran a two element quad hor pol for a while last year. I compared it to the Mosley TH67B on ten meters. without a doubt that two element quad provided consistently better receive than the TH67B, installed same height at 45 feet.

I had more fading on the TH67B than I did on the Quad, there was not an S unit difference in rx signal strength, but the Quad was able to maintain the rx signal with less fading than the TH67B. Why? some say it is the capture area of the full wave vertically installed loop providing both HOR and VERT, I can not prove that just share the results I seen in real world comparisons.
Click to expand...

I've read that as well WV. Some guys discount your findings on the basis that even though the directors can "hear" both, the driven element is either horizontal or vertical and not both. I tend to agree with your findings as the received signal has just as much a chance of being somewhere between horizontal and vertical..

Also, thanks Henry, good reading.
 
I made my quad in the diamond shape configuration, not the square configuration, so that may or may not be the reason I had a better receive results with less fading as the diamond shape sort of like a pair of opposing inverted V or full wave loop standing on it's end.

If the quad was in the square box shape as some build them then perhaps it would experience more fading as a "true" hor or vert polarization, in the diamond configuration it was hor polarized, and I could tell the difference locally in QSO with some one running a vert compared to a hor antenna, but on Dx it sure helps the receive fading problem.

It has been said that a Quad opens the band earlier and stays open longer, it is also said only by 15 minutes.

the quad yagi debate is as old as both of the antennas.
 
I have had a dual polarity beam up for about 6 months and I agree with kilowatt on this best polarity thing. From what I have saw its about a 60/40 split with the flat having the slight advantage in the conditions ive had. That may change in the future. As far as noise flat is alittle quieter but far from night and day. Maybe a db or two at the most. I love having both. I thought I was on the flat side when I got into Europe afew weeks ago but after I was done I looked at the antenna switch and it was set to vertical. My returned signal reports were 5-7 to 5-9 but was recieving most stations 5-4 to 5-5. Hope this helps.
 
MR. Clean,

Good read and I enjoy reading Cebik's site, a lot of useful to the point information.

The quad I constructed used 10 gauge stranded wire, big, heavy, but great bandwidth and really good F/B.

It was a beast and just to darn heavy to put up in the air higher than 40 feet.

thanks for the link.
 
Ive never had a quad so I cant say. Just always heard people say quads are better until I was reading this.
 
For 10 or 11 meter DX work, few things will beat a HORIZONTALLY POLARIZED 4 (or more) ELEMENT CUBICAL QUAD at either 35 - 70 feet above average ground.

If this is not feasible in your location, my 2nd choice would be a 4 element flat-top yagi.

If I couldn't put up a yagi, next on the list would be simple phased verticals.

Next on the list would be a wire Lazy H antenna, with the bottom element(s) up at least 22 feet. (Bi-directional)

Next on the list would be either wire half squares or bobtail curtains (also bidirectional, but offer an extremely low take off angle suitable for DX).

Regardless of faraday rotation, remember that most 10 / 11 meter skywave propagation (Sporadic E notwithstanding) usually arrives at extremely low angles of radiation... I'm talking single digits here. Halfsquares and Bobtails shine in this regard.
 
well i am going to put up a 4 element cube quad at about 110'. i am down in a hole a bit here and need at least 35' or so te be above ground level so i am going to get that and about 75' more. the quad design is really close to a white lighting if any one remembers those.
 
CT, quick questionm, of topic for the thread and apologize for hi jacking.

What is the prefered method of feeding that bob tail? Voltage feed it at the middle leg with matching network or feed it at a corner for current feed?

From what I researched the current feed method provides a close impedance match for 50 ohm, so basically which is the better method for best signal pattern? Thanks.
 
Hey CT, is it really so easy to package antenna performance so neatly?

I've read many articles to contradict you, so I'd like for you to link your information so that I can read it too. Thanks.
 
I do agree with most of CT, and im not sure if i disagree... (lack of interpertation my side).

To my opinion Quads are overrated...yes i know ill get anyone over me everybody is just happy with the moonraker etc.. But sadly for those who do not know: They do not produce a lower TOA etc etc etc...But its hard to kill those old stories.

There is a "catch" i do have a couple designs of quads (3/4 elements) wich outperform any Yagi on such a boomlength. But they do have downsides...for example a real small bandwidth.

One should also consider what actually means "outperform"..
Is that the best gain/FB/bandwidth/mechanical consturction etc...for each one could have a different antenne. Honestly most people just look at there SWR meter and if that is oke...the antenna must be to lol..

Guessing its probarbly the mechanical aspect why people vote for yagi's instead of Quads since electrical for a given boomlength they both could do about the same.

The Low angle TAO wich is important...
Yes entirely correct.

I always say to people here in Holland where everything is flat, first spend money on the mast its better to have a 3 elements at 100 feet than a 6 elements at 30 feet.
But...If you live in a mountain enviroment there are other things to deal with.

In aspect to the bobtails as well as half squares, they depend more than one thinks on good ground.
At this moment I have a bobtail up, it is approximently sitting 3 feet above ground.
I also have a 3el LFA yagi up at approximenty 24feet of the ground.
(testing a DX-expedition set-up).
Now..normally without having done this test i would have favoured the bobtail...
Due to its tremendous reputation (on 40 meters)
however in my situation the bobtail is about 3dB to 6 dB behind for real DX europa/australia/asia etc.
For closer range formal russian countries/within Europa the difference is bigger.
This is ofcourse true due to the second take of lob of the Yagi wich the bobtail doesnt have.

Regards,

Henry
11 meter Dx antenna systemx
 
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This is what I used to use for dx and local and it was fantastik.
 

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