What is Your Favorite Tube Type Amp.?

[coondog]

PRIDE DX-300 and JB2000 BLACKCAT

 

[CDX-007]

Wow, tough decision...


It's either the Browning 180, or the homebrew 2-stage
4-400C driving 4 GS-35B at 4400v / 5a (linear supply not voltage doubler) 65w input, 1500w-plus output

 

[1200RI]

Ameritron AL-1200.Best small tube out there.

 

[Master Chief]

homebrew 2-stage 4-400C driving 4 GS-35B at 4400v / 5a (linear supply not voltage doubler) 65w input, 1500w-plus output

A single GS-35B will do 2K easy. Four should net you well over 8 to 10K, especially at 5 amps!

 

[211]

DaveMade

DaveMade 3cx3000a7

 

[paws264]

homebrew 2-stage 4-400C driving 4 GS-35B at 4400v / 5a (linear supply not voltage doubler) 65w input, 1500w-plus output

A single GS-35B will do 2K easy. Four should net you well over 8 to 10K, especially at 5 amps!

MC, after speaking with Tony over at GS35b.com, I went with seperate filament winding and bias circuit with metering for each tube.

 

[Mr Clean]

Love my SB200. May get its big brother in the future but the 200 is nice in that it runs fine off 110. 150 watts DK 600 PEP is were I run it.

 

[Unit 194]

Love my SB200. May get its big brother in the future but the 200 is nice in that it runs fine off 110. 150 watts DK 600 PEP is were I run it.

Excellent tube amp., a "vintage" workhorse.....

 

[Toll_Free]

Wow, tough decision...


It's either the Browning 180, or the homebrew 2-stage
4-400C driving 4 GS-35B at 4400v / 5a (linear supply not voltage doubler) 65w input, 1500w-plus output

I hope your talking carrier power there... Because I can get that PEP out of your driver stage.

With bias.

And linearity.

Well, let's say 1200 watts PEP out of a single 4-400.

Strap as a triode, I'll show you another 3 to 500 watts.

Your GS-35B amp should be giving you 4 to 6 times that output.

Time to find some help.

--Toll_Free

 

[Toll_Free]

homebrew 2-stage 4-400C driving 4 GS-35B at 4400v / 5a (linear supply not voltage doubler) 65w input, 1500w-plus output

A single GS-35B will do 2K easy. Four should net you well over 8 to 10K, especially at 5 amps!

MC, after speaking with Tony over at GS35b.com, I went with seperate filament winding and bias circuit with metering for each tube.

The only problem with that circuit is it doesn't do anything other than.... Well, cost you more money.

Get a fils xformer with a low enough secondary resistance, and you don't have the V drop. Also, make sure it is potted so it can handle the V swing coming from your 4-400 driver.

Splitting up your tube fils v can cause more problems since it didn't provide any type of varying for the filament voltage per tube. If any of the transformers have a different secondary resistance, your tubes won't be amplifying the same. Your box will be a IMD generator, and you will see all kinds of neat things on a scope.

Another thing, I saw nothing in that schematic that allowed for individual bias setting. Since your voltage on the filaments is all different now, your going to need to individually set each tube for bias current now.

Hope it works well, but it's some of the shittiest RF design I've seen.

--Toll_Free

 

[Toll_Free]

My favorite box

My favorite box commercially available was the DX-300. Not a box everyone can operate, but one of the best made.

For a workhorse that's unbreakable, anything Tom and Merideth Henry put out.

Then, the SB220 or Drake L4B. They where never designed for AM (since Johnson and Henry, no amps have been designed for AM), but they stand up to it.

(you don't use cap input for AM use. Choke input filtering).

Then comes the slew of shitbox sweep tube amps.

For mobile, the Messenger M4v for smaller amps, and the 16 2879 box for regular 16 pills.

--Toll_Free

 

[paws264]

The only problem with that circuit is it doesn't do anything other than.... Well, cost you more money.

Yes, there was an added expense of using two identical filament transformers, plate current meters, zeners diodes and associated circuitry.

Get a fils xformer with a low enough secondary resistance, and you don't have the V drop. Also, make sure it is potted so it can handle the V swing coming from your 4-400 driver.

Voltage drop or filament current requirements are not what is of concern here.

Splitting up your tube fils v can cause more problems since it didn't provide any type of varying for the filament voltage per tube. If any of the transformers have a different secondary resistance, your tubes won't be amplifying the same. Your box will be a IMD generator, and you will see all kinds of neat things on a scope.

Respectfully sir, I have disagree with you because you are way off the track; separate filament windings along with separate zener diode voltage regulation are being done to allow for the variance in tubes. One tube may draw more current, one may draw less but, not at the expense of the other one. BTW, there is no reason the "Vary the filament voltage per tube".

And you know what you can do with your "RF-Sigmoidoscope-Protoscope".......

Another thing, I saw nothing in that schematic that allowed for individual bias setting. Since your voltage on the filaments is all different now, your going to need to individually set each tube for bias current now.

Respectfully sir, that was because you did not know what you were looking at; in the diagram there is a Zener marked "OP Bias 1" and "OP Bias 2", the cathode current is controlled through the individual zeners for each tube indepently. The standby current is set by the "Cutoff Bias" resistors.

Hope it works well, but it's some of the shittiest RF design I've seen.

--Toll_Free

Respectfully sir, I feel no need to defend the engineering design of W4ZT (Tony King) nor, do I have the interest or inclination to bring you up to speed on an engineering project that is above your head, I asked him a question about the design and workings of the GS-35B tube and he gave me the benefit of his knowledge and experience. I will use the circuit and if it doesn't work out for me, I will do something different; I can do that.

:roll: .....ugh, thanks for the feedback.... :roll:

Respectfully sir I believe that you took a wrong turn somewhere and ended up in the "Tube Amplifier Section", you thought that you were in the "Solid-State Sand Box" where the children argue back and forths and throw dirt on each other; I am not looking for a "Flame Match" or pissing contest. Perhaps, you were but not with me.

If you have problems with Tony or his engineering design, go to amp.w4zt.com/ and take it up with him.

If, you feel the need to further debate this engineering issue with me, please do it in PM form; it will keep you from publically looking like the azz that those so-called "shittiest" engineering ideas came out of.

.

 

[CDX-007]

yeah, what HE said...

But seriously, I saw a little more than 11K pep out, and I think it was sucking the polepig dry at that point. :shock: You did notice the plus after 1500w... right?

 

[Toll_Free]

The only problem with that circuit is it doesn't do anything other than.... Well, cost you more money.

Yes, there was an added expense of using two identical filament transformers, plate current meters, zeners diodes and associated circuitry.

Get a fils xformer with a low enough secondary resistance, and you don't have the V drop. Also, make sure it is potted so it can handle the V swing coming from your 4-400 driver.

Voltage drop or filament current requirements are not what is of concern here.

Splitting up your tube fils v can cause more problems since it didn't provide any type of varying for the filament voltage per tube. If any of the transformers have a different secondary resistance, your tubes won't be amplifying the same. Your box will be a IMD generator, and you will see all kinds of neat things on a scope.

Respectfully sir, I have disagree with you because you are way off the track; separate filament windings along with separate zener diode voltage regulation are being done to allow for the variance in tubes. One tube may draw more current, one may draw less but, not at the expense of the other one. BTW, there is no reason the "Vary the filament voltage per tube".



OK, I know who you are, and what you do, and I listen to you and have talked to you. That out of the way.....

Why wouldn't you vary the filament voltage per tube. Let me refer you to care and feeding of power tubes by Eimac, Bill Orr's Radio Handbook, The ARRL Manual for the Radio Amateur, and most other "accepted literatures" that deal with radio.

If you don't vary the fils voltage, then you run one tube hotter than another, or one colder than another. Hell Collins does it, are they stupid? If one tube... Wait, you know what your doing, right?


And you know what you can do with your "RF-Sigmoidoscope-Protoscope".......

By you changing it to be something I didn't say doesn't mean what I said wasn't true. You can call a spec-an anything you want it to, but it doesn't lie.

Like the Bird, a Spec-An is a heartbreaker.

Another thing, I saw nothing in that schematic that allowed for individual bias setting. Since your voltage on the filaments is all different now, your going to need to individually set each tube for bias current now.

Respectfully sir, that was because you did not know what you were looking at; in the diagram there is a Zener marked "OP Bias 1" and "OP Bias 2", the cathode current is controlled through the individual zeners for each tube indepently. The standby current is set by the "Cutoff Bias" resistors.


Please show me something that is variable.

Hope it works well, but it's some of the shittiest RF design I've seen.

--Toll_Free

Respectfully sir, I feel no need to defend the engineering design of W4ZT (Tony King) nor, do I have the interest or inclination to bring you up to speed on an engineering project that is above your head,


OK, you resort to personal attacks. Your getting involved in something you where not involved in in the first place, but that's OK, we all do that.

It doesn't matter to me what Tony says. Anyone else you ask, any text you read, anything that is put out by the individual TUBE MANUFACTURERS will tell you to allow the fils voltage to vary. Using individual transformers will cause a problem, simply because if they are not matched DAMN CLOSE, they are going to put out a small amount of fils voltage... period. You, Tony, Steve. Nobody can change physics, my friend.


I asked him a question about the design and workings of the GS-35B tube and he gave me the benefit of his knowledge and experience.


Good. He knows the tube quite well.

Still doesn't change the laws of physics and ohms law.

You ever measure the filament resistance on each tube?


I will use the circuit and if it doesn't work out for me, I will do something different; I can do that.


Well, no shit. And as soon as someone else comes along and points something out that is different than what you've been told by "someone else", your going to attack them, tell them they are full of shit, and bash them.

Although we typically agree, your getting emotional here, simply because your pocketbook and reputation are on the line here.



:roll: .....ugh, thanks for the feedback.... :roll:

Respectfully sir I believe that you took a wrong turn somewhere and ended up in the "Tube Amplifier Section", you thought that you were in the "Solid-State Sand Box" where the children argue back and forths and throw dirt on each other; I am not looking for a "Flame Match" or pissing contest. Perhaps, you were but not with me.


Oh, screw you. Again, you want to debate me on these subjects, go right ahead. Don't regurgitate what "tony" told you, stand up for yourself and actually tell me why I'M wrong, not just because Tony said.

I pointed out, you can go look at care and feeding by EIMAC (they might know how their tubes work, ya know?), and you attacked me.

Who looks like the idiot here?

No, I wasn't looking for a pissing match with you. I pointed out what I thought was a shitty design, and I still think it is. Put a friggin reostat in line with the fils lead, or better, a variac. And put it on a xformer big enough to supply them all, and then you can build a bias supply big enough to supply all the tubes. If the tubes are built so crappy that you can't get them close to matching, then I guess you have to resort to crappy designs to overcome them.

It isn't like the Russians where ever solid state, where they? It's not like they ever beat us in ANY type of electronics race. Maybe the tubes are inferior, and you have to do things to get them to work that people who use tubes designed in the western world don't have to. Sorry if me using Eimac and Penta have caused me to be used to real RF engineering practice.

Or is Tony the new Bill Orr?


If you have problems with Tony or his engineering design, go to amp.w4zt.com/ and take it up with him.

I did start reading some of the stuff I saw there. It's a REALLY large site, and if I find something directly I don't like, I will take it up with him.

I've argued with the best of them, and held my own.

So far, you attacked me, told me to go somewhere else, but didn't provide me with a way that you vary either the bias or the filament voltage, which Eimac says is pretty much a necessity in modern RF tube design. Bottom line.



If, you feel the need to further debate this engineering issue with me, please do it in PM form; it will keep you from publically looking like the azz that those so-called "shittiest" engineering ideas came out of.

.

You haven't done anything but twist a statement I made about a spectrum analyzer to fit your own agenda, and regurgitated something someone else told you.

Again, I don't have a problem with you, and you and I usually agree. But, you show me where ANY MAJOR tube manufacturer advocates running multiple transformers to feed the filaments, where they say its proper rf design to run multiple tubes in the same PA (and not be able to bias them seperately and not be able to change the fils voltage). The whole point of running multiple xformers IS to get the filament voltage equalized per tube.

Anyway, have a good one, see ya in skipland, and hope all is well. Again, when you can show me someplace that is a respected vacuum tube manufacturer, a rebuilder or even a major distributor... Or find me a major transmitter by Collins, Harris, Teledyne, etc. that uses multiples and no variable bias / fils voltage.

'Nuff said.

--Toll_Free

 

[Toll_Free]

yeah, what HE said...

But seriously, I saw a little more than 11K pep out, and I think it was sucking the polepig dry at that point. :shock: You did notice the plus after 1500w... right?

I don't have a problem with anything he said, although it would appear his reputation or pocketbook was involved simply because he was getting so pissy at me. Otherwise, everything I said is valid, backed up by major texts from Eimac, Penta, etc., and everything was validly stated and interpolated from ARRL manuals, Bill Orr's texts, actual on-air testing and having worked on 10 thousand watt + stations for the last 20+ years.

1500+ and 11 thousand are two different things. 1500 plus usually would signify a capability of 2000 to 2500. If your gettin 11 grand out of it, that's not bad, and your right, most reasonably available pole pigs can hold about 10 thousand watts.

I have a line on some transformers that are currently powering 3CX3000s for around 500 dollars, in socal. They hold 5500 volts > 1.5 amps... You might want to get off a pig and move to a dedicated plate xformer (pigs work, but they fall off quickly, as you approach the limit of their current capability... Especially since we are running it backwards. It's built to work in reverse, and as such, the secondary resistance is higher, in the config we use. I guess you would need a variac to make it work for you, though... Those tubes are pretty light on voltage, no?


--Toll_Free