what NPC/RC mod looks like on a scope

[cbdoctor]

You can think that this is a "professonial side-step" if you want to, but the ones that have had confidence in what I have had to say please do me a favor and read a few of the testimonies at this site.

Ambien is worse than alcohol - Visitor Opinion

I have been on this drug--maximum dosage--for TWO YEARS--EVERY NIGHT WITHOUT FAIL! I have just started trying to get off of it within the last week.

It is a horrible drug which without, I usually do not fall asleep until I have been in bed for at least 4 to 6 hours. Then when I do finally get up at 1 or 2 in the afternoon, I am groggy for another 3 to 5 hours.

While visiting my sister in California back in August, I went to sleep and 10 pm and got up at 12:30 AM and talked to her for 2 hours, ate 4 hostess twinkys, and stood straight up in the bathroom sound asleep for about 45 minutes with out leaning on anything. I thought she was just joking with me until I found the 4 twinkys wrappeers in the trash and I knew how many I had when I went to bed the first time.

I am not saying that this drug is responsible for all of OUR dissagrements but it just might be responsible for the fact that I did not remember the customers handle when I saw it here on the forum. I do remember him coming in and I remember him getting me to work on a radio that he had already tuned up. I did NOT remember that he was the one that traded me the Stryker. And I am just ABOUT sure that I DID NOT tell hem how much that I expected to get out of the radio because that is simple NOT my way of doing things. I kind of remember telling him that he had done a good job, BUT I thought it was capable of more output.

I do NOT believe that he just let me do the work to see how muchmy meter was off of calibrastion--come one now, there are better ways to find that out than to pay someone--and then come on this forum and brag on me until he started getting ridiculed. I think NOT!

 

[MisterFatty]

Well I started to answer your posts, and have decided I have nothing further to say. Not because You have answered my questions, and not because I don't feel there is more to this.

I think enough has been said to allow an individual to make an accurate conclusion with what is already on the table.


73 Billy, I wish you well.

 

[High Voltage Mobile NJ]

THE second wave your seeing is a more compressed wave with more of an average waveform. its a cheap way or doing it, but its not recommended to do that kind of mod. that goes for the NPC mod in the 29's and the 68, 78 unidens. while you take out the diode and put in a jumper. it volts the finals. it will give you more average watts and make you swing harder , not really giving more audio, but the attack time will be increased . to see more audio and better watts. use the hotter finals IRF520 , 2030 final. then adjust .

 

[MisterFatty]

THE second wave your seeing is a more compressed wave with more of an average waveform. its a cheap way or doing it, but its not recommended to do that kind of mod. that goes for the NPC mod in the 29's and the 68, 78 unidens. while you take out the diode and put in a jumper. it volts the finals. it will give you more average watts and make you swing harder , not really giving more audio, but the attack time will be increased . to see more audio and better watts. use the hotter finals IRF520 , 2030 final. then adjust .

There is NO NPC Mod for a Cobra 29, or Uniden 68/78 It Will need additional circuitry added to the radio to make it happen.

You really should stick to the AMPower thread

 

[cbdoctor]

I don't really know what you are talking about taking a diode out and inserting a wire and volting the finals on the transformer radios you mentioned.

What I do with "the red wire on the bottom" is NOT to "Volt" the finals. First of all the way everyone throws around the term "volt" in this way doesn't have a clue to what the word means. That word came into being meaning to give the finals and linears not just a higher voltage but higher than the altenator can provide--usually with a motor maul. Just raising the final voltage to 13.8 IS NOT "VOLTING THE FINALS"!

The reason that I put a wire to bypass the 2ASB754 (in most cases) is to SAVE the modulation am regulator because when you raise the average modulation, the mod transistor gets too hot so I take the voltage for the finals from the incoming red battery wire.

The 1969 2312 and the mosfets can take 13.8 and loaf along if the carrier isset for 2 or 3 watts. If not, explain using them in a 148 that has had the mod transistor bypassed for the finals. Many "techs" do that and yet complain about me "volting" the finals.

Like I said before, there are no negatives to the NPC-RC the way I do it. I will prove that to anyone that comes by the shop. We will put it on the scope and the spec/an and run it at 18 volts---with NO POBLEMS!

 

[15minigrass]

hey doc, I found on ployboy mods an NPC mod for a 146GTL board. I think it was R64 near the power lines coming into the radio. I installed it and it worked fine but with HI SWR, it squealed. So I removed it. Is there a proper NPC mod for my 146GTL?

Aloha, Jim.

I don't really know what you are talking about taking a diode out and inserting a wire and volting the finals on the transformer radios you mentioned.

What I do with "the red wire on the bottom" is NOT to "Volt" the finals. First of all the way everyone throws around the term "volt" in this way doesn't have a clue to what the word means. That word came into being meaning to give the finals and linears not just a higher voltage but higher than the altenator can provide--usually with a motor maul. Just raising the final voltage to 13.8 IS NOT "VOLTING THE FINALS"!

The reason that I put a wire to bypass the 2ASB754 (in most cases) is to SAVE the modulation am regulator because when you raise the average modulation, the mod transistor gets too hot so I take the voltage for the finals from the incoming red battery wire.

The 1969 2312 and the mosfets can take 13.8 and loaf along if the carrier isset for 2 or 3 watts. If not, explain using them in a 148 that has had the mod transistor bypassed for the finals. Many "techs" do that and yet complain about me "volting" the finals.

Like I said before, there are no negatives to the NPC-RC the way I do it. I will prove that to anyone that comes by the shop. We will put it on the scope and the spec/an and run it at 18 volts---with NO POBLEMS!

 

[Moleculo]

I run 16-18 volts on my bench radio because the regulator burnt out years ago and I have never taken the time to fix it.

That says a lot right there. Misleading customers with power claims (with a meter inline or by using a scope or spec analyzer) by running much more voltage than they will ever use themselves is crooked, now matter what excuses you want to make to justify that practice. You also can't be sure what kind of power output your radio work is accomplishing because your bench power supply is unstable.

With the NPC-RC and a 2030, there is absollutely NO reason to doubt 75 watts out with a 148. Why would a good tech not be able to get the rated power out of a great little part like the EKL components?

This is absolute horse-shit. You can't get 75 watts out of a 2030 in an AM only Cobra 29 that uses a voltage step-up transformer...forget about accomplishing this with any integrity in a 148 SSB chassis. Why would a good tech try to get this type of power out of a great little part that isn't intended to do this and will never do it cleanly or reliably? Show us spec analyzer video at 14 volts, or it's all just internet BS.

Oh yeah, I'll repeat my last post: You still haven't addressed my previous comments from four pages ago, and you still haven't told us why we should be impressed that "your mod" is nothing more than a basic AM clipper circuit that has been around forever.

This whole thread is just getting ridiculous now: 80 watt Cobra 148 GTL radios. A tech talking in circles without actually addressing any questions and side-stepping all poignant issues brought up. No spec analyzer, scope, or other real "proof" shown on why we should believe any of the claims. A diode and resistor with a clipped limiter solving all of the CB chassis problems. It just keeps getting better and better....op:

 

[Robb]

Yeah, but half of the fun is eating all of this popcorn.
op:op:op:

But seriously - being on drugs isn't an excuse to answer simple questions CBDoctor.
You should cough up something solid -here and now- that can verify on this thread w/o any shadow of a doubt.
You need verifiable evidence; and you have yet to produce anything of substance.

Mr Fatty; can you do a NPC mod on a radio, and publish a picture of the best scope pattern in your control of this mod?
I mean - you really don't have to do anything if you don't want to - but it sure would get interesting if you could!
I know you have a lot of experience with CB mods; so your first-hand analysis with a brief presentation might be most revealing.

Moleculo is claiming this mod is nothing new; just an old circuit re-packaged with new hype.
This is starting to appear to be so.
Furthermore, the claims of CBDoctor appear to be exaggrrated; and his methods unsound.
Moleculo started this thread with his findings and has presented his evidence and charge.
A second display of info from another source would constitute evidence from two different witnesses.
That is; if Mr Fatty could contribute as well.


Since CBDoctor didn't publish the info he promised; then another independant expert ("Mr Fatty") who knows their way around a radio can.
It would be in the best interest of CBDoctor to produce his evidence.
I am waiting to see it...
op:op:op:

 

[MisterFatty]

I'll see what I can do, currently the only CB radios I have are Vintage, Sold my last 148GTL about a week ago. I'll see what I can come up with.

I really do believe CBdoctor is a decent tech, I'm not sure what exactly happened here, I still feel the NPC Mod has merit, but I also think execution is lacking in most cases.

I would prefer if CBdoc would do it himself, mostly because then there can be no claims of "Done Wrong" etc.

I'll see if I can grab a cheap candidate for the mod..

And on a lighter note...

Just remember 3 points of the NPC Mod......

1. How Much money you wanna spend?
B.How accurate do you wanna be?
and
C. What exactly do you want to do, and How much money do you want to spend.

 

[cbdoctor]

Moleculo, or whatever you call yourself, I'm not going to set here and be hammered by a JERK that doesn't have a clue as to how MYbench is set up. I run 13.8 volts on the work bench supply. I run about 16 volts on MYPERSONAL RADIO that I talk to the drivers on.

Also, the NPC-RC IS NOT A CLIPPING CIRCUIT!

You should do a little more studying and experimenting before you try to tell me how a circuit works thart I first worked with in 1969 when I was Senior Design Engineer for GeneralRadio Telephone in Burbank California.

Maybe you should check with the manufacture of the ERF 2030 and ask them why they rate the part at 75 PEP if it will not do that. Almost any RF device will do it's maximum rated power---CLEAN! That is because the maximum rated PEP power is usually just shy of saturation.

I learned that from a guy named Helge Grandburg, the man that designed the Motorola MRF-455 and the MRF 454 devices back in 1971.

I think it would be nice if you would get ahold of Tom Bishop--Helge Grandburgs personal assistant at that time who still works for Motorola in Mesa Arizona, who wrote the Motorola Bulliten explaining to their customers how to use MRF454's. Ask him why, in the bulliten he wrote did he have a picture of MY AMPLIFIER! That amplifier circuit is still used in medical equipment paired up with a Cobra 25 for treatment in colin cancer.

I think it would be nice if you buy a copy of my new book that I am re-writing from the book that I wrote in 1977--The Design, Manufacturing, Repair, And Matching Of Linear Amplifiers For The CB Industry which sold quite a few thousand copies.(The Linear Amplifier Bible). As far as I know, it was the ONLY book ever written on the subject. It tells everything there is to building Linears from designing the copper pc boards, etching them cleaning themnsilkscreen panels purchacing and cutting, deburring, and anodizing the heatsink. How to compensate the amplifier for the most usuable power with the least harmonics. I am in the process of writing it as a CD rather than printed pages.

Also, I think it might be nice, if you are going to slam me, if you showed the forum a little bit that you know about RF output stages--such as how the parts values are determined for the output stage. Why does an amplifier use a particular capacitance value as a coupling capacitor instead of some other value. Why does it use a certain bias voltage instead of another voltage.

What is the purpose of the DM-15 silver mica capacitors that goes from the collectors to ground on each transistor in a push-pull pair and how do you come up with the proper value for that part.

Maybe just explain what the term push-pull means! Maybe you can do that! If you can't do everyone of these things--simply quit slamming me!

Maybe you can show us something about a radio that we all are familiar with--say the Cobra 29 LTD. What should the voltage be measured from the base to the negative supply voltage and more important, why should it be THAT voltage.
It is completely obvious that you AND the guy that did the "so-called" NPC-RC that kicked this thread off almost 6 years ago hasn't a clue since the circuit that he installed was NOT the NPC-RC and you with his help, I guess, had no idea of how to interpret the scope readings that you made the pictures of.

First of all the one that was supposed to be the typical stock radio with full modulation was not at all representative of such! It was quite trashy!

Then, the one that was supposed to be of the NPC-RC, which it was not, looked better than the first picture and both of you TOTALLY misinterpreted what you saw on the scope.

The NPC-RC DOES NOT CLIPP AT ALL! If you think youknow so much about it, which you apparantly do not, why don't you explain to the group exactly how it works and why it works.

What is the purpose of the 1N4001, or the 1N914 used in the NPC-RC mod, how does it accomplish what it does accomplish and why is there a resistor used and why did I choose 100 ohms from most RCI-built radios.

KI6USW, Thanks for you support but what do you waqnt me to prove that I have failed to do. I will be glad to try at anything that you would like to know that I believe and why I believe it.

I guess I spouted off quite a bit in this post but the problem is that if we were all sitting around a table or a campfire having a chat, the ideas would not get out of hand before they could be answered. However, when I get on here once a night and there are things that are so far off base that it takes a lot of defensive remarks to straighten out, it gets frustraging.

I have NO DOUBT that if we were all in the same room having this discussion that we would all enjoy what each had to say because there would be either an instant agreement or an instant rebuttel. These forums are handicapped from that standpoint.

 

[cbdoctor]

Oh, and MR. Fatty,

Thanks for your support! However, I do not understand just exactly what you want for me to do MYSELF! I will be glad to do whatever it is that you mean if you will explain it to me.

 

[Moleculo]

CBDoctor, I don't have to explain anything about my knowledge...I'm not the one making claims that everyone else is questioning. I haven't made any statements about my qualifications, skills, or knowledge that need substantiated. I am an amateur, a hack, a hobbyist...that's it. But when I make a claim about something I can do, I back it up with proof immediately, especially when the medium is the internet. You haven't done anything that can remotely be documented as proof. Now you're throwing around names that are all to familiar to us to try to prove your claims....without actually giving us anything of substance. You started up here by resurrecting a thread that was totally jacked up from several board conversions and missing many posts. This was pointed out long time ago....2/3 of the original discussion by several other techs is gone and missing. Many of the points about the 2 resistors and diodes that you made, were already made by others and lost in the original thread (yet you can still glean some of it if you try to piece it together), yet you continue to obsess on it. You continue to talk more about your credentials instead of showing us anything of substance. We don't care about how many CB amplifiers you designed or books about how to build illegal amps you wrote. We don't care if you were best buddies with Helge. We're not talking about MRF454's, or how to etch a board for an amplifier. All of that discussion (including the 70 watt 148GTL) is just NOISE. This thread is about the "NPC/RC" mod and nothing else. You keep bringing up all of these other topics to distract from previous questions.

You still haven't answered my questions from my previous post, which is probably 10 pages ago, yet you continue to be argumentative. Here is a link back to my post in case you can't find it: http://www.worldwidedx.com/tech-repair/16094-what-npc-rc-mod-looks-like-scope-9.html#post151606

If this thread continues to stray off topic, continues to be argumentative, and doesn't start getting to some facts soon, it's going to get locked. I'm all ears, and I've said over and over that I'm here to learn something. I know very little about this topic, but I do know when direct questions and comments are being asked and avoided. Give us facts, prove your claims to us, and also explain why everything you are saying that appears to be in direct contradiction to NU9N is actually not.

 

[Moleculo]

Just remember 3 points of the NPC Mod......

1. How Much money you wanna spend?
B.How accurate do you wanna be?
and
C. What exactly do you want to do, and How much money do you want to spend.

Now that was too funny, LOL.

 

[bob85]

Until then, I would like to know what some of you think about the following! If you have a transmitter that is doing 5 DK watts on a bird watt meter (no peak adapter) and the scope is calibrated and set to show 4 divisions on the carrier pattern. And further, during 100% modulation, show 8 divisions during modulation what will the reading be during the 100% peaks on YOUR peak-reading meter?

im surprised nobody answered this,
5w avg resting carrier modulated to 100% = 2x voltage = 4x power = 20wpep on the active pep meter,

cbdoctor, been an amplifier guru you would have been much safer in the amplifier biasing thread, its lonely in there,

i hope making my bird read 80w wont involve giving the slug a good whack in just the right direction against the bench:sneaky2:.
i think i need your book too so i can figure out those dm15's, my pushpull amplifier is oscillating.

 

[cbdoctor]

im surprised nobody answered this,
5w avg resting carrier modulated to 100% = 2x voltage = 4x power = 20wpep on the active pep meter...............

i hope making my bird read 80w wont involve giving the slug a good whack in just the right direction against the bench:sneaky2:.
i think i need your book too so i can figure out those dm15's, my pushpull amplifier is oscillating.

Thank you! Exactly 20 watts! There is not a peak meter on the market that I have seen that will show more than about 12 watts on peaks of a 100% perfectly modulated signal. That is proof that none of them are calibrated properly.

And no Moleculo, your not going to get by trying to turn my post on me!

"CBDoctor, I don't have to explain anything about my knowledge...I'm not the one"

Oh yeah, you ARE THE ONE! your the one that keeps telling me that I am wrong and can't stay on the subject. We are NOT talking about limiting the peaks which your post you directed me to is.

I simply meant by mentioning what you call throwing around names is this: When you can show me some credentials of some types that shows that your knowledge is to the point that you can constructively argue the point, THEN tell me I am wrong and show me why with your own words. I can validate that I compensated the amplifier in the Motorola Bulliten--I had to do so about 5 of years ago with another forum member.

That forum member was on one line one day and we pm'ed each other and he asked me to call him and he did a threeway Motorolas head RF engineer and found that I was not JUST THROWING AROUND NAMES.

I made a few very direct statements which you and others bascically danced around making me look like I was wrong. Yet, no one has proven anything wrongh with my statements--because it can't be done! There are no ill-effects with the NPC-RC as I do it. Yes I know that same statement within the last two days. Now YOU prove me wrong if you can!

If you want me to prove myself right then tell me what it will take to do so in your eyes and I will do that--but you must have enough knowledge to understand what I am saying. That was not meant as a slam to you moleculo but it you don't know how to interpret scope patterns or Spec/AN patterns, how will I prove anything to you.

You proved over 5 years ago that you did not know how to interpret the patterns--have you learned about them since. You act like I am some arrogant SOB that just wants to prove my point.

I first introduced the internet forums to the NPC-RC in an effort to be of some help to those that appreciated it. I got into immediate arguments with Bill Eitner of Menlo Park, CA. and Gene Raines of Nova scocia Canada who both slammed the mod. Ask them now what they think! They both are firm believers and they were in at least the top 10 techs in the forums.

If you still don't know how to interpret patterns I will be glad to call you on the phone and talk about it as long as you want to to try to help you gain an understanding of the subject. Anything that I do know--maybe you think that is very little-I will be glad to share with you. I love to share electronics theory.

Then maybe you have no confidence in what I have to say. You have succeeded in changing some of the posters to believe that you have valid arguments against the NPC-RC when you do not have.

I am through with this thread as I did not come here to get into what has become a nerve-racking experience for me trying to defend myself when I already know where I stand and at least 20 techs regularly text me for help.

That is the reason I joined the forums --to help not to fight!