I had one also and with a 2950dx I was keying 85 or so ramping up to 250/375 and it never ran hot at that.If your DK (dead key, no modulation) with the amp on is about 100W, that's fine.
The radio DK is not as important as the amps DK.
Maintain a ratio of DK=25% of the total output.
If it peaks at 400W, a DK of 100W is appropriate.
I had the same thing (MagnaForce 350) and beat it with 80W peak.
Saw 600W, but bet alot was not on 11M.
400W is alot more realistic, I mentioned what I did to let you know that it's a fairly tough amp.
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Will it fly or will I fry? Xforce 350hd.
- Thread starter vibrant93
- Start date
Thanks for all the help guys! This is really starting to click with me. We'll try both radios when the amp gets here and see how they both react with the different dead key inputs and go from there.
Rob KI6USW... I didn't realize there was that much difference between the K40 and the Wilson 1000! Looking at the specs between the two it appears that they are almost identical, wow. If you hurt an antenna does that affect the amp or does the antenna just stop working?
Jesse
Rob KI6USW... I didn't realize there was that much difference between the K40 and the Wilson 1000! Looking at the specs between the two it appears that they are almost identical, wow. If you hurt an antenna does that affect the amp or does the antenna just stop working?
Jesse
Yes it will affect anything attached to the antenna, when antenna damage occurs such as a circuit break then what you have is an open circuit so you radio will be broadcasting into open air and the radio and amp will be absorbing it's own radiated energy and then you'll definitely be smelling smoke.
Get antenna rated for more power than you plan to place on it.
Wilson makes a great antenna in my opinion.
Ok, I give a 1000 a go. Looks like they moved operations to China and some people are having quality issues since that change has taken place. Hopefully I get a good one
Like I said, I used to run a K-40 - until I put a 250 watt amp inline. Thereafter, the SWR match wasn't the same. I took it apart and saw the capacitor shattered myself! The capacitor that K-40 put into the base portion, was put in to even out the SWR across the 1 thru 40 channels. When it pops - and I'm fairly certain it will - the SWR will barely have a usable 40 channels to work with. That's my experience with it - take it for what it is.
I like K-40's; but there are other antennas as well that will hold more power than the K-40. After I popped the capacitor and continued to run the amp, the base load got a bit warm. Most antennas rated for more power won't do that. Not all antenna mfr's are honest in the power ratings/specifications of their antennas - I now know that is true for K-40's. I'm sure that others had similar experiences after running power on it.
Just so you know now - before you run a bigger amp than I did.
Additionally, I noticed a MASSIVE difference between the K-40 after I put a Wilson 1000 mag-mount on. The difference in transmit was especially noteworthy. Receive was also much better too...
Like I said, I used to run a K-40 - until I put a 250 watt amp inline. Thereafter, the SWR match wasn't the same. The capacitor that K-40 put into the base portion, was put in to even out the SWR across the 1 thru 40 channels. When it pops - and it will - the SWR will barely have a usable 40 channels to work with. That's my experience with it - take it for what it is.
I like Wilson's; but there are other antennas as well that will hold more power than the K-40. After I popped the capacitor and continued to run the amp, the base load got a bit warm. Most antennas rated for more power won't do that. Not all antenna mfr's are honest in the power ratings/specifications of their antennas - that is true for K-40's. I'm sure that others had similar experiences after running power on it.
Just so you know now - before you run a bigger amp than I did...
I reviewed the Wilson 1000 against another antenna - here:
http://www.worldwidedx.com/cb-anten...load-mobile-citizens-band-radio-antennas.html
So let me get this right. MOST amps don't want a whole lot of drive dead key HOWEVER the tnt 350hd can take say 5-6w and probably be ok? I've also read that audio quality can be greatly affected by too much dead key. With a radio that isn't adjustable in the dead key dept do you think i'll have issues with audio quality?! I'm trying guys, I really am!!!
You're more likely to see audio issues with too low power input as to high but a good measuring stick is what ever you amp will produce maximum divide that by 4 and use that amount of carrier out of the amp and what ever the radio is producing to accomplish that is what you'll need.
Ok, thanks!
Gosh. I'm starting to wish that I'd have gone with the tnt t-400. Think a 20w uniden would have driven a 4 transistor amp? I'm stuck on the class B amp if you're wondering why I keep using the "tnt" style amp.
Something else to keep in mind is that an amplifier does nothing about improving or making a signal worse as far as quality goes (some sure, but not much, it's called linearity). The thing only amplifies what's fed to it, the transmitter does the audio quality thingy.
The other thing to remember about amplifiers is that they wouldn't know a dead key for modulation, from strawberry ice cream. The only thing they recognize is maximum input signal, not how, or what, that signal is composed of. Using less than the max input to do tuning is certainly possible, but it's also very easy to not do it right, to drive the snot out of the amplifier thereby producing distortion and 'bad' quality, or maybe even making it drop dead.
And the biggy. You can tune an amplifier by using voice. It has to be a constant level and tone. Voice never is.
Mull all that over. Dump it all in that 'brain blender' and punch the button. It makes sense. Ain't that hard to do, it's just different than how most people do it.
- 'Doc
Don't you just love it when somebody drops stuff like that on you? I don't either, but it's how it is.
The other thing to remember about amplifiers is that they wouldn't know a dead key for modulation, from strawberry ice cream. The only thing they recognize is maximum input signal, not how, or what, that signal is composed of. Using less than the max input to do tuning is certainly possible, but it's also very easy to not do it right, to drive the snot out of the amplifier thereby producing distortion and 'bad' quality, or maybe even making it drop dead.
And the biggy. You can tune an amplifier by using voice. It has to be a constant level and tone. Voice never is.
Mull all that over. Dump it all in that 'brain blender' and punch the button. It makes sense. Ain't that hard to do, it's just different than how most people do it.
- 'Doc
Don't you just love it when somebody drops stuff like that on you? I don't either, but it's how it is.
Actually what you said made complete and perfect sense to me. I think that finally painted the picture. Oh and fwiw I got the 350hd installed and running today. I was surprised at how much the swr changed from keying just radio vs. keying with boot. I basically had to tune it for the amp and hope for the best when running just radio. This was tricky btw with two different radios. With the 5w dead / 12 pep uniden 510xl I saw 120w on low and 290 on high. With the 7w dead / 21w pep radio I saw 179w on low and 354w on high
I got a "holy sh*t" out of a trucker that was about 28 miles from where I was when I told him that I was running on a little uniden 510xl. He said "you must have a really good antenna cause your're blowing smoke over here." lol Thanks for all the help guys! I really appreciate it.
vibrant93,
a couple of things you said got me thinking.
now that you have the amp, we can make sure everything is working right.
when you gave the wattage numbers out of your amp, were those deadkey or swing numbers?
i am also concerned about your antenna install.
what is your SWR with the amp on?
are you still using the K40?
how much length did you cut off of it to get it to tune?
where is the antenna located on your vehicle?
i have never heard of a 2 pill amp that would take 120watts input power.
what would be the point of that? if you had a radio that put out 120 watts PEP, then you would have no need for a 2 pill amplifier.
remember, to gain 1 S-unit in someone elses receive, you have to increase your power output by 4X.
i have already posted how to lower the deadkey in the 510xl, or any other AM only radio for that matter in another thread. i think it was called "lowering the deadkey in a 510xl" or something like that.
you can find it on this forum, and if your dad is a ham op, and knows how to use a soldering iron; you guys can do this mod yourselves.
it basically involves removing a diode and putting more diodes in series with it to obtain a lower deadkey. the PEP should stay close to the same.
feel free to PM me with specific questions if you need to.
good luck,
LC
a couple of things you said got me thinking.
now that you have the amp, we can make sure everything is working right.
when you gave the wattage numbers out of your amp, were those deadkey or swing numbers?
i am also concerned about your antenna install.
what is your SWR with the amp on?
are you still using the K40?
how much length did you cut off of it to get it to tune?
where is the antenna located on your vehicle?
i have never heard of a 2 pill amp that would take 120watts input power.
what would be the point of that? if you had a radio that put out 120 watts PEP, then you would have no need for a 2 pill amplifier.
remember, to gain 1 S-unit in someone elses receive, you have to increase your power output by 4X.
i have already posted how to lower the deadkey in the 510xl, or any other AM only radio for that matter in another thread. i think it was called "lowering the deadkey in a 510xl" or something like that.
you can find it on this forum, and if your dad is a ham op, and knows how to use a soldering iron; you guys can do this mod yourselves.
it basically involves removing a diode and putting more diodes in series with it to obtain a lower deadkey. the PEP should stay close to the same.
feel free to PM me with specific questions if you need to.
good luck,
LC
mr. clean, this is just an opinion, so take it for what its worth, but i think your deadkey out of your amp is just a bit on the high side.
if you were to turn the deadkey of the radio down so the amp deadkeyed about 90 watts, your amp would run cooler, and might last longer.
no one will notice the difference between a 90 and a 125 watt deadkey on the other end anyway.
again, just an opinion, and you know what those are like. LOL
LC
if you were to turn the deadkey of the radio down so the amp deadkeyed about 90 watts, your amp would run cooler, and might last longer.
no one will notice the difference between a 90 and a 125 watt deadkey on the other end anyway.
again, just an opinion, and you know what those are like. LOL
LC
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