wilson roof 5000 problem

[Se7en]

i am only able to get my swr on the 5000 to 1.5 on 40 and 1.3 on 1. when i first got it i didnt know you were supposed to use an amp inline with it on to check swr i did it barefoot now when i run my amp swr is 3.5 the whip is 60.5 inch it was 62" when i first bought it.

everything is grounded including the exhaust.
i even made a Static Discharge at the rear of the vehicle.
i also seem to have ALOT of spark plug noise in my recieve after installing brand new spark plugs.
iv choked the RG8x at the back of the base and in the center and close to the amp.
is my whip too short? is this why swr goes rocket high when fire is produce in the wire?

 

[jazzsinger]

firstly you should tune the antenna without an amp inline, secondly if the amp is giving high swr its either unstable or spewing harmonics everywhere, are you sure you ain't overdriving the amp?

a decent amp should make no discernible difference to vswr when set up properly.

i would also be checking your patch leads to ensure they are wellmade.

 

[TonyV225]

Make sure the patch cords or jumpers are not shorting out.

 

[Se7en]

i no longer have the amp. i use a icom 706 if i run it on high the external meter shows 1.5 with a 50w dk swing to 100w. as to the rig';s swr meter it says 1
i know this is the wrong section but my setup is the icom 706 a wilson 5000 for CB bands mostly SSB. and a Larsen 2 meter. the swr seems to be high with high power ( no amp) just the radio. and i have a heap load of TICKING in my recieve the faster i drive. iv choked all spark plug wires both ends of the RG8x on the wilson choked the seperation kit choked the power wires. its odd if i remove the antenna no ticking put it back on ticking. so i have two issues and might want to kill em both, swr problem with high power and RFI noise. i did recently change the spark plugs as my chrysler is now at 90K miles. to champions platinums. two of the coils are semi burnt. could i need new coils? should i buy 6 new auto lites with resistors?

replying to the coax. the antenna goes 19feet to the meter and from the meter 5 feet to the back of the rig. the five feet i made from astatic RG8x cut it down to make jumpers. if i have to i can remove all the rg8x and put new stuff on the antenna i dont see why it seems to be perfectly fine with no kinks or loss according to my analyzer

 

[loosecannon]

fast4socal,

man you sold that amp fast! LOL

you do not have an SWR problem that i can see. a 1.5 to 1 SWR is absolutely fine. attempting to get it down to 1.1 to 1 will not make you get out any better, and i mean not at all.

i run a wilson 5000 roof mount on my truck, and my SWR is 1.3 to 1. that is just fine with me, and trying to get it lower would be an exercise in futility.

also, you dont need to use that external SWR meter; the one in your radio will do just fine for quick checks. the external meter will introduce a .5 to 1 db loss into the system, so removing it would be an improvement.

just run the antenna coax right to the radio and you will probably notice less noise in the receive. more on that later.

you dont need to coil your coax up, unless its getting in your way.
if you do coil it up, do it right at the feedpoint of the antenna.
this is where it would do the most good if it was needed.
it is possible that you could see some small improvement from adding an RF choke at the feedpoint of the antenna. you can look up "coax balun" or "ugly balun" for some ideas.

as for the noise issue, if it just started happening and the sparkplugs were the only things you changed, then i would say theres a pretty good chance that they are the culprits.
if you changed the plug wires, they could also be it.

you said that when you removed the antenna from the radio that the noise went away, and that means that its not coming in over your power wires, its being picked up by the antenna.
this means that you have to attack the noise at its source.
alternator noise sounds like a whine that varies with your RPMs.
spark plug noise sounds like a popping that varies with your RPMs.

just to put it out there, with that radio, you should be running a minimum 10ga. and preferably 8ga. wire right to the positive terminal of the battery with a properly rated fuse right at the battery.
this is for fire safety and is not optional.

the negative lead from the radio should be kept as short as possible to reach a good chassis connection.

make sure you have bonded the hood of the car to the frame with braided grounding straps. wire will not make a good RF ground connection between vehicle body panels. it needs to be flat braided strap or copper foil.

make sure all of this is good and you should have a very happy radio system, and operator.
LC


PS- just wanted to add that i noticed you said you made your own coax jumpers.
know that if you didnt solder the shields properly to the connectors, that this is a huge hole for stray RF to enter your receive. make sure all the coax ends are done properly.

 

[jazzsinger]

have you tried the noise blanker on the 706,from what i remember when i was last out mobile on my mates mk1 it is pretty effective against alternator whine.

another thing i would stress on that radio is keeping the tx power low on AM and FM as the bandpass filter relays are known to cook when used outwith ham bands with excessive power,i never ran it anymore than 10w carrier on AM and about 40w carrier on FM, it will run full power on ssb for fun but constant carrier modes it just don't like.

theres also a 100w power surge on keyup even at low power setting,so i wouldn't be running a low drive linear after it.

other than that the 706 is a great little radio that i've worked loads of dx on 11m ssb on.

as an addition to what LC says about patch leads being homemade,nearly every antenna problem i ever fixed (and thats plenty) was down to the original plug installer (including premade ones from shops) f@cking the job up with poor soldering or dry joints.

 

[W5LZ]

Am I understanding you correctly, you're getting 50 watts carrier and 100 watts of swing on AM with that '706?
- 'Doc

 

[jazzsinger]

Am I understanding you correctly, you're getting 50 watts carrier and 100 watts of swing on AM with that '706?
- 'Doc

on AM at hf the 706 only does 40w carrier which i think is what Doc is getting at,so if you have it set for 5 on the power scale its actually deadkeying about 20w,should only swing to 80w max with 100% modulation.

if your measuring it on a reactive antenna then that would explain why your power meter is reading innacurately.you need to use a dummy load for even remotely accurate power readings.

also if i recall the wilson 5000 is fitted from the factory with a 3 x 1/4 coax line with .66 vel factor coax,if replacing that length with rg8x you really want it to be around 21 feet 5 inches as the velocity factor of rg8x is in the .78 to .80 range depending on brand.its also notoriously difficult to solder the braid properly on such thin diameter foam dielectric coax, rg58 c/u is a far better bet, trust me i've done umpteen replacement jobs on rgmini8 type coax on magmounts back to rg58c/u mil spec and the owner has always been happier afterwards.

if you really want to upgrade the coax look to rg223/u double silver plated screen which should ofer slightly better noise reduction characteristics than standard rg58 c/u.patch leads are best made from very very short lengths (which isn't practical in most installs) or even better a double ended pl259 adapter, or even easier a halfwave multiple of coax (about 14 feet 3 inches with rg8x) which avoids the coax having an effect on impedance (swr).

 

[Se7en]

i tok the meter out of line and ran the antenna coax straight to the base of the icom. i made a short video of what exactly is going on. if the swr on the radio says 1.0 then im good. my external meter was reading with the radio RF power @ 6 showing a 5w dk and it swings to 120ish watts. it probably is wrong. power is not an issue anymore if i ever do decide to get another amp to get down on the mini bowls ill go with a 4 transistor type amp. yes sold the amp on ebay since i have a very nice radio now no need for heat.

those who might bash me for having this radio and not my license yet tuff sh!t im working on getting my ticket, wanted to see what all the hype is about on the bands. this radio came pre-modified 0.003.00 - 200.000.000 no gaps.
choking the coax has done nothing more and it seems like it made the noise worse its so bad when the car is hot i cant even listen to shortwave on 160 meters AM. its very disappointing to not be able to listen to people talk without having to pull over and shut the engine off. my antenne is on the trunk which if i run a ground strap on the side to the frame swr goes to 3.0 no matter what power setting im on. im into aeronautical stuff and was reading into static discharge and was curious if possibly my vehicle needed it so i made one did it help? NO! one thing i found that worries me is when i key up and talk on low power or high when i get out the metal of the car sparks me! ill get pictures of the chokes and everything else asap. here is a video:

YouTube - Icom IC-706 massive receive problem :-(

and here is video of installation of coax chokes radio etc etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6LHriHW8W4

 

[jazzsinger]

buy a new car, that one sounds rough as fuck.

is it fuel injected?

seriously though the best way to tame inteference outwith directly grounding antenna through the body is to fit suppression capacitors at the noise source, the noise source can generally be narrowed down by using a length of coax with about an inch of bare centre conductor to act as a tiny antenna which is probed about the engine compartment till the noise peaks.no matter what the type of rf is be it signal or wideband noise, its always strongest at source.

might be worth checking out this link beetle posted originally and mole reposted.
http://www.worldwidedx.com/home-bre...-simple-alternator-whine-ignition-filter.html

 

[Se7en]

buy a new car, that one sounds rough as fuck.

is it fuel injected?

seriously though the best way to tame inteference outwith directly grounding antenna through the body is to fit suppression capacitors at the noise source, the noise source can generally be narrowed down by using a length of coax with about an inch of bare centre conductor to act as a tiny antenna which is probed about the engine compartment till the noise peaks.no matter what the type of rf is be it signal or wideband noise, its always strongest at source.

might be worth checking out this link beetle posted originally and mole reposted.
http://www.worldwidedx.com/home-bre...-simple-alternator-whine-ignition-filter.html

lol still paying on the car. if not i would get a new one. the alt is brand new the sparkplugs are brand new. the spark plug coils are not. i just read that link u posted and that is for the power side of the radio the part where im not having any problems. okay will i will take a short piece of coax and strip back the shielding leaving the center solid exposed and start the car and turn on the radio and run it arround the engine until i find the course. i have a 2 meter 440 handheld that when sitting on the roof with the car running it also picks up the RF from the engine LoL i could use that to find it this really sucks, because my s9 is nice n clean sounding in the vehicle but i like this icom ALOT

 

[jazzsinger]

lol still paying on the car. if not i would get a new one. the alt is brand new the sparkplugs are brand new. the spark plug coils are not. i just read that link u posted and that is for the power side of the radio the part where im not having any problems. okay will i will take a short piece of coax and strip back the shielding leaving the center solid exposed and start the car and turn on the radio and run it arround the engine until i find the course. i have a 2 meter 440 handheld that when sitting on the roof with the car running it also picks up the RF from the engine LoL i could use that to find it this really sucks, because my s9 is nice n clean sounding in the vehicle but i like this icom ALOT

my bad, i missed the part where you said if you unplugged the antenna the noise disappears.

pity the car is new,that negates getting shot of it and most probably drilling holes to mount the antenna (the best solution), the 706 i used was quite bad too, but nowhere near as bad as yours and the nb got shot of 95% of the crap, modern motors with their computer systems just don't like radios.

make sure when you check the engine that no-ones in the car, i mind my mate being in the engine compartment and i tooted the horn, he absolutely shat himself,pmsl.not to mention crashing his head off the bonnet.

 

[Se7en]

my bad, i missed the part where you said if you unplugged the antenna the noise disappears.

pity the car is new,that negates getting shot of it and most probably drilling holes to mount the antenna (the best solution), the 706 i used was quite bad too, but nowhere near as bad as yours and the nb got shot of 95% of the crap, modern motors with their computer systems just don't like radios.

make sure when you check the engine that no-ones in the car, i mind my mate being in the engine compartment and i tooted the horn, he absolutely shat himself,pmsl.not to mention crashing his head off the bonnet.

lmao! yea iv done that before good news is my horn doesnt work

ok so i went ahaid and stuck a ground strap from the trunk lid to the frame were i had mentioned in the second video( i went arround with my fluke meter to see what was grounded ALT is grounded frame is grounded exhaust is grounded engine is grounded trunk lid is grounded. swr was sky high so i dropped the whip down in the base to the bottom and swr is 1.7 on 40 and 1.1 on 1 *yes cb bands*. now that i done this every time i key up to check swr than unkey get out and if i touch the whip it sparks me ouch! so i think i need to cut the whip some more. also the spark noise has gone away 70% with the NB on. i wanted to ask if purchasing the UT-106 if that would help my situation? if i really have to i guess i could just sell my all time dream radio icom 706 and got back to using the s9 i really don't want to because i saved up ALOT of $$$ to get this icom and i really want to pass the test so i can work CW legally and maybe join the club on 80m

 

[jazzsinger]

lmao! yea iv done that before good news is my horn doesnt work

ok so i went ahaid and stuck a ground strap from the trunk lid to the frame were i had mentioned in the second video( i went arround with my fluke meter to see what was grounded ALT is grounded frame is grounded exhaust is grounded engine is grounded trunk lid is grounded. swr was sky high so i dropped the whip down in the base to the bottom and swr is 1.7 on 40 and 1.1 on 1 *yes cb bands*. now that i done this every time i key up to check swr than unkey get out and if i touch the whip it sparks me ouch! so i think i need to cut the whip some more. also the spark noise has gone away 70% with the NB on. i wanted to ask if purchasing the UT-106 if that would help my situation? if i really have to i guess i could just sell my all time dream radio icom 706 and got back to using the s9 i really don't want to because i saved up ALOT of $$$ to get this icom and i really want to pass the test so i can work CW legally and maybe join the club on 80m

you seem awful hung up about using a 706 on cb bands, i don't know many people who don't use ham sets on 11m (except me cause i'm nostalgic for uniden 11m radios) (icom didn't have any hang ups making sure it deliberately worked on 11m, i doubt them or kenwood/yaesu would still be in business if they didn't),here in the uk just about everyone runs them even on ukfm, i don't see why hams should have an issue with you using it either seeing as its output is probably a hell of a lot cleaner than any 11m radio which means a cleaner spectrum for those radio users around you.

dsp has its pros and cons, it generally gives crap sounding audio compared to an all analogue setup.just my opinion mind, a bit like the valve v transistor war.



glad to hear your interference is reducing.

i would persevere with the 706,cause once you get it singing its a great little radio although i prefer the ts50 myself but theres very little too choose between two of the best mobile multiband sets.both work great on 45m too incidentally,lol.i certainly wouldn't go back to an s9,like all magnums they are a pile of shit.

 

[loosecannon]

there is more to ferrite chokes than meets the eye.
you have to make sure that you have the right mix of ferrite for the frequency of the noise you are trying to get rid of.
mix 31 is a good general mix for mobile installations.

having the wrong mix can mean that the ferrite is in effect doing nothing.
most of the cheap ones for sale on ebay and other places are for computers and are not the right mix for HF freqs.

also, wrapping coaxial cable too tightly around a form will distort the shape which will in turn change the impedance of the cable.
the wraps you have on that ferrite bead at the back of your radio are too tight and should be removed.
if the coax looks deformed after you remove it, you should cut it back and solder on a new connector.

the way that noise sounds does not sound like spark plug noise to me.
im wondering which mode you were in when you made that video.
SSB? AM?

it could be coming from anything that is belted to the engine.
i think you said that the noise wasnt there before and now it is, so im thinking it might be your new alternator?
bypass capacitors are the way to do to solve this type of interference and you add it right at the plug/terminal on the alternator or whatever.
one lead of the cap goes to the positive wire and the other goes to the chassis.

i dont know too much about the cable that runs from the main unit to the head unit, but that could also be letting the noise in i would think.
you might try running it through a different part of the interior.

the coax probe idea is a good one and is definitely a place to start.

here is a good site to look around for advice and ideas:
KØBG.COM

its all about mobile HF operation.
good luck,
LC