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day+night propagation on HF?

Back_Crick_Hobbies

Active Member
Mar 14, 2023
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American CB operator here (0197)

been out of the loop on skip for 20ish years. now i'm aware of the solar cycle and got back into the hobby. new radio w00t!
*ahem anyway... i notice that the 17m-15m bands are 'good' for day+night propagation.

now the question. will 10M 11M, 20M, 40M or others allow night and day skip?

PS i do plan on getting licensed. :)

thanks for reading
73
 

The daytime problem is the D-layer. It absorbs lower frequency HF signals (often well into 11m) and prevents them from reaching the E and F layers where they would normally bounce back to Earth at some distance. The D layer is awake during the day and gobbles up most of the signals lower than 20MHz to the point they never come back down.

The nighttime problem is that the sun isn't there to make an E layer (a very unappreciated layer) or the two distinctive F layers (that combine into one F layer at night), so signals that do hit them don't refract as well as they would during the day. It becomes a balance between low bands and high bands as the sun rises and falls.

VHF, on the other hand, cares very little about the ionosphere (ie, the sun) and cares more about local weather conditions such as temperature inversions common to the troposphere.

The magic number of the day moment is the MUF. Maximum usable frequency. And that changes from hour to hour. Depending on the ionospheric conditions, there is a frequency and angle at which the ionosphere cannot refract it back to earth due to insufficient ionization.

The reason 11m goes to shit at night is because the ionosphere cannot bend the signal back towards Earth enough and the signal is lost to space (hence the defined "skip-zone" with no signals at all, like the 11m guys in the state next to you). Then there is the gray line :) the time when the sun is setting but still illuminating the upper ionosphere enough to give you the higher E and F layers, but no D layer to absorb your signals... Fun times!

Part of getting licensed is the pleasure of discovering the intracacies of it all and learning how to make a specific contact in a specific set of conditions. Ham operators enjoy learning these intracacies and making use of them. This is why they have awards for working all countries or all states. They don't tell you what band to use, thats for you to figure out!

And don't assume all the fun is limited to HF, the troposphere can do some cool stuff at VHF too, and meteors and airliners can do amazing things at UHF and up! Its all about having fun learning how to use what mother nature has to offer!
 
@brandon7861 thank you so much for that detailed explanation. really appreciate you taking the time. (y)

"It's all about having fun learning how to use what mother nature has to offer!" heck yeah :) i've seen some operators like K6ARK get amaizing DX on VHF/UHG with micro transmitters. i'll never get CW though. i'm just not wired that way. give me a mis-behaving engine on the other hand... :D

thanks again.
cheers, and 73
 
i'll never get CW though
Let me help with that! Just like how SSB is better than AM (from a reception perspective, not sound quality), CW is king of all modes because of its bandwidth.

Lets say you have 5 watts at your disposal. You can use that 5 watts on AM and have that power spread out across 8kHz of the band ~ the receiver filter needs to be 8kHz wide too, and you get all of the noise that exists within that 8kHz of bandwidth along with your signal. The signal needs to be above the noise for the receiver to pick it up, so that 5w that got spread out across 8kHz of passed bandwidth must, on average, be higher than the noise it rides in with.

SSB. Take the same 5w, but only spread it out 2.5kHz. Now, that same 5w is only contending with the average noise that got through the 2.5kHz filter. We lost a little fidelity as only 200-2500Hz of our voice is being used, but now the receive filter need only be 2.5KHz wide and less noise power gets through.

What happens when you squeeze 5w of power into 200Hz of bandwidth? You get a signal thats almost guaranteed to be above the average noise that got through a filter of the same bandwidth.

As the filters get narrower, less average noise gets into the radio. If you can get the same power signal into a receiver with less noise, you receive the signal much better. Its a tradeoff between the amount of information you can send (or audio fidelity) vs making it easier for a weak signal to be detected and understood..

CW is not just a nostalgiac thing, it really works! One day you may get into CW :)
 
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@brandon7861

thanks. i should have been more clear. i suck at spelling, and can't 'see' words in my head. even when i was young.

the science of it i understand, and think it's great for those that use it. being able to be heard at great distances with very little power. thanks for explaining it though. (y)
 
@brandon7861

thanks. i should have been more clear. i suck at spelling, and can't 'see' words in my head. even when i was young.

the science of it i understand, and think it's great for those that use it. being able to be heard at great distances with very little power. thanks for explaining it though. (y)
I have aphantasia, so I totally get not seeing things in your head! If I was asked to picture a truck in my mind, then asked what color or what make that truck is, I'd have no answer because only the idea of a truck and what a truck means is in my mind. If I try to imagine a wire frame cube, I can "see" the first 3 or 4 wires in my mind before it al disappears and goes black.

But morse code doesn't have to be like that. You can learn what letters (and eventually words) sound like as a whole, rather than trying to identify each dit and dah and writing it out in front of the minds eye to read back. I too prefer voice modes and if I ever get in a jam where I need morse code, I know the s and the o. And if I need to send more than that, I hope the person hearing me knows tap code lol.
 
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