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DIPOLE GONE WRONG, PLEASE HELP
- Thread starter KB1UGX
- Start date
Those antenna will work fine if you get them out in free air - here is how I did mine. I used PVC to make a mast and then put it on a roof vent with a PVC coupler. BINGO - talked all over the US on 11 meters.
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Those antenna will work fine if you get them out in free air - here is how I did mine. I used PVC to make a mast and then put it on a roof vent with a PVC coupler. BINGO - talked all over the US on 11 meters.
Thanks for the info
However that is the bazooka model
I have an end fed
My configuration is almost the same although i made a sloper and i have this stupid fire escape which i have a feeling is the cause of most of my issues
No matter how high or how far i get it away from the stupid thing i feel like im kinda screwed
Its always going to try and couple there. I feel like even a verticle would do the same thing.
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If the radio is working correctly, you could load up the dang fire escape and it would work better than what you describe. I would still take the radio back to the dealer, or a local ham, and hook it to a known good antenna and test it out. That way you can eliminate the rig as the problem, and we would have some more info to work with. Then, borrow another radio, and test out your antennas. Even a crappy antenna will receive. Indoor antennas, mobile antennas on fire escapes or indoors, fences, lawn chairs, trees, everything has been used as antennas at one time or another, and worked after a fashion. The professor even used Gilligans fillings ( ask lucille ball about this one,) ,LOL! You MUST start at the beginning to eliminate possibilities one at a time, and what ever is left is the problem. Don't worry about coupling with the fire escape, it will NOT affect the receive, and can be used as a part of the transmit antenna.
Keep us posted.
Keep us posted.
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I reconfigured the antenna in a different format to get more free air as indicated by are freind above with the bazooka which is almost the same thing
I am now able to hear all kinds of stations on 40
Not perfectly but was able to listen to a few convos mostly from eastern US
But that is better then what i had
I think the radio is ok
I have no heard things on 10 still but that could be because of inactivity.
I will have my buddy try again this evening
I configured with two 10 foot masts running upwards in paralle
spread about 5 feet apart because that is all i have to work with for width
so now there is a 5 foot section running strait across the top and then it slants down like before. I also added a longer horozontal piece of pvc
to keep it further away from the railing
Its not perfect but we are making progress. Atleast i can hear something now
Heard California, MI, ME and IN
It is DEF the fire escape reaking hack on me
Atleast its not my bran new radio
Any other thoughts please keep them coming
I am now able to hear all kinds of stations on 40
Not perfectly but was able to listen to a few convos mostly from eastern US
But that is better then what i had
I think the radio is ok
I have no heard things on 10 still but that could be because of inactivity.
I will have my buddy try again this evening
I configured with two 10 foot masts running upwards in paralle
spread about 5 feet apart because that is all i have to work with for width
so now there is a 5 foot section running strait across the top and then it slants down like before. I also added a longer horozontal piece of pvc
to keep it further away from the railing
Its not perfect but we are making progress. Atleast i can hear something now
Heard California, MI, ME and IN
It is DEF the fire escape reaking hack on me
Atleast its not my bran new radio
Any other thoughts please keep them coming
Not to argue, but it is not the fire escape affecting your receive. More than likely the fact that you were using it vertical, and now it is more horizontal. But, at least you are trying things to make it better.
Well we will agree to disagree
It was not set up as a verticle previously it was set up as a sloper as shown in my diagram
When i stuck it out the window without a fire escape on the other side of the apartment and just let it hang out i was able to receive.
Which lead me to want to keep it even further away from the fire escape then originally planned.
Hence the new design
And now a marginal improvment
I also would never have thought it would improve a RX
From what i know RX is RX and would agree you could RX with a coat hanger
I dont mind if it wasnt or was or whatever else
Im just happy to hear something besides white noise
I am mostly listeing on 40 meters
Lots of chatter
Again thanks for all the suggestions, and please keep the ideas and suggestions coming
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Well after 3 days of making antenna configurations and taking them apart and making my apartment look like WW111
I think we are ok on the receive side for the lower bands
However, i still can not get in our out on 10 meter
I had my buddy call me again on the new configuration and still the same result
Cant hear or get out
I called the antenna manufacturer today and they basically told me tuff today
They seem to have no intention on helping and there engineer is "unavailable"
so im basically back not at square 1 but id say Square 2
I think we are ok on the receive side for the lower bands
However, i still can not get in our out on 10 meter
I had my buddy call me again on the new configuration and still the same result
Cant hear or get out
I called the antenna manufacturer today and they basically told me tuff today
They seem to have no intention on helping and there engineer is "unavailable"
so im basically back not at square 1 but id say Square 2
It sounds as though you're on the right track to figuring this out. I may have missed your answer, but how far away is your buddy? It could be that he is in a null of your antenna pattern.
Worse comes to worst, I'd even consider even driving to where he is with some pvc and that antenna in the car and setup somewhere close to him (front yard, maybe) and try it there. That may sound nuts, but if there is no one else closeby to test with that would tell you some things. That would let you know whether it's your equipment or just the path between your two locations.
What kind of antenna does he have, and how much power is he using?
It could be there's not a thing wrong with your setup and that you're just suffering from one of the disadvantages of the No Code license-- that is, being limited to 10 meters on HF. It is GREAT fun when the band is open but can be unpredictable (though that's part of the fun) with summertime Es.
Hang in there, you'll whip this.
Rick
Worse comes to worst, I'd even consider even driving to where he is with some pvc and that antenna in the car and setup somewhere close to him (front yard, maybe) and try it there. That may sound nuts, but if there is no one else closeby to test with that would tell you some things. That would let you know whether it's your equipment or just the path between your two locations.
What kind of antenna does he have, and how much power is he using?
It could be there's not a thing wrong with your setup and that you're just suffering from one of the disadvantages of the No Code license-- that is, being limited to 10 meters on HF. It is GREAT fun when the band is open but can be unpredictable (though that's part of the fun) with summertime Es.
Hang in there, you'll whip this.
Rick
Where IS the counterpoise, though. You don't show it on your drawing, and the information from the manufacturer doesn't show anything.
Let me ask a few questions so I might understand?
The reason I ask, I helped a friend with the same issue.
He was swearing yelling and just generally pissed off!
Since there were 2 connectors on the back of the radio, one for HF and one for vhf/uhf,,,,,,,,,well can you guess where I am going with this? YUP, he had the HF antenna to the VHF/UHF port and was listening on HF, he heard stuff, barely.
If your connectors are not fitted properly to the coax, you will have problems also.
I have seen people strip the shield off the coax and screw the PL-259 into place and only soldered the center, no shield was even touching the "ground"
Just double check the stuff, don't take anyones word for it.
OH and check the jumpers from the radio to the tuner, those suckers fail and you will have similar issues
- Do you have a vhf/uhf antenna hooked up?
- Have you made any contacts at all or have you just heard other stations?
- What are you using to check swr? is it the built in meter on the radio?
- Who assembled the coax? Is shield soldered to the PL-259 "ground"?
- Is the centers soldered the PL=259?
The reason I ask, I helped a friend with the same issue.
He was swearing yelling and just generally pissed off!
Since there were 2 connectors on the back of the radio, one for HF and one for vhf/uhf,,,,,,,,,well can you guess where I am going with this? YUP, he had the HF antenna to the VHF/UHF port and was listening on HF, he heard stuff, barely.
If your connectors are not fitted properly to the coax, you will have problems also.
I have seen people strip the shield off the coax and screw the PL-259 into place and only soldered the center, no shield was even touching the "ground"
Just double check the stuff, don't take anyones word for it.
OH and check the jumpers from the radio to the tuner, those suckers fail and you will have similar issues
Here's something else to think about.
That fire escape, being metal, is going to affect any antenna 'near' it. That 'near' is relative, and not necessarily 'bad'. For one thing, it's going to make any antenna sort of directional, at least in some directions, usually less signal from the 'side' the fire escape is on. Sort of a 'reflector'.
That mass of metal is also going to act as a "ground" to some extent. Which isn't necessarily 'bad' at all. If you can use that characteristic in a beneficial manner, do so, why not!? The 'flip-side' to that is that mass of metal then becomes part of the antenna, will radiate, and means you've got an antenna -that- close to other people's electronics. (See where that could be a problem in an apartment building?)
As antennas go, the best producer of a radiated signal has both resonance and impedance matching. The less of either of those characteristics means less efficiency and radiated signal. Then there are antennas used on multiple bands. They always will be less 'efficient', but will certainly work. How well they work just depends on what you are willing to 'give up' on those non-resonant bands. (I've found that I can give up quite a bit of that 'best' stuff and still have a very usable antenna.)
With the 'end fed' antenna that you have, and from reading it's advertisement, I figure the manufacturer is using the feed line as the 'other half' of that antenna, the counterpoise, 'ground', whatever you want to call it. While that can certainly be done, it always has complications of one sort or another. One of those complications is that the usable SWR bandwidth of that antenna is going to be fairly narrow. Another is that the positioning of that feed line is going to get sort of 'picky'. There are so many variations to that, that there are probably several 'ways' of going about it, and I'm not about to make any recommendations as to how to go about it! Play with it and see?
And here are some observations about the manufacturer's line of antennas. All of them are only variations of things that other manufacturers have had for years. Some of them are only 'good' for very particular situations! Some, you couldn't pay me to use because of experience with them! You will notice that there are no performance specifications given, they leave that to your imagination. (The ones copied from 'B&W' are perfect examples. Don't just put those down, go wash your hands!)
Being one of those naturally 'cheap' people, I don't like buying antennas, I'd rather make them. That means that I very seldom ever have the 'best' antennas, but they 'work' well enough (for me?). One suggestion would be to use that @#$ fire escape as the "groundplane" (hate that word), and a 1/4 wave as the radiating thingy. That's fairly easy for the higher HF bands, and not impossible for the lower ones. I think you might be surprised at the results.
Good luck with it.
- 'Doc
All of the above is a 'generalization'. That means that there are a number of variations possible with any of it, and never always 'correct' as stated.
That fire escape, being metal, is going to affect any antenna 'near' it. That 'near' is relative, and not necessarily 'bad'. For one thing, it's going to make any antenna sort of directional, at least in some directions, usually less signal from the 'side' the fire escape is on. Sort of a 'reflector'.
That mass of metal is also going to act as a "ground" to some extent. Which isn't necessarily 'bad' at all. If you can use that characteristic in a beneficial manner, do so, why not!? The 'flip-side' to that is that mass of metal then becomes part of the antenna, will radiate, and means you've got an antenna -that- close to other people's electronics. (See where that could be a problem in an apartment building?)
As antennas go, the best producer of a radiated signal has both resonance and impedance matching. The less of either of those characteristics means less efficiency and radiated signal. Then there are antennas used on multiple bands. They always will be less 'efficient', but will certainly work. How well they work just depends on what you are willing to 'give up' on those non-resonant bands. (I've found that I can give up quite a bit of that 'best' stuff and still have a very usable antenna.)
With the 'end fed' antenna that you have, and from reading it's advertisement, I figure the manufacturer is using the feed line as the 'other half' of that antenna, the counterpoise, 'ground', whatever you want to call it. While that can certainly be done, it always has complications of one sort or another. One of those complications is that the usable SWR bandwidth of that antenna is going to be fairly narrow. Another is that the positioning of that feed line is going to get sort of 'picky'. There are so many variations to that, that there are probably several 'ways' of going about it, and I'm not about to make any recommendations as to how to go about it! Play with it and see?
And here are some observations about the manufacturer's line of antennas. All of them are only variations of things that other manufacturers have had for years. Some of them are only 'good' for very particular situations! Some, you couldn't pay me to use because of experience with them! You will notice that there are no performance specifications given, they leave that to your imagination. (The ones copied from 'B&W' are perfect examples. Don't just put those down, go wash your hands!)
Being one of those naturally 'cheap' people, I don't like buying antennas, I'd rather make them. That means that I very seldom ever have the 'best' antennas, but they 'work' well enough (for me?). One suggestion would be to use that @#$ fire escape as the "groundplane" (hate that word), and a 1/4 wave as the radiating thingy. That's fairly easy for the higher HF bands, and not impossible for the lower ones. I think you might be surprised at the results.
Good luck with it.
- 'Doc
All of the above is a 'generalization'. That means that there are a number of variations possible with any of it, and never always 'correct' as stated.
Doc is correct. Again!
That is exactly why I recommended that you return to one antenna only, for now, and that antenna should be your home made dipole. ( hopefully it is a real dipole). Perfect it. There isnt much that can go wrong, as long as it isnt shorted anywhere, you wont hurt anything, and it is THE tried and true ham antenna. Back to the basics once again. Tape it to the walls in your house, and try it. Move it from wall to wall til you find the best "wall". ( there is still a 10m dipole made of speaker wire taped to the wall above the bed in my old room at dads house. Been there for 30+ years, and it worked.) Then you can move it outside and play with it. It is only 18' long and easy to put up anywhere. Once you find out how to make it work, then you can play with other designs, but start with a proven design first.
And as mentioned earlier, check the radio hookups over well.
That is exactly why I recommended that you return to one antenna only, for now, and that antenna should be your home made dipole. ( hopefully it is a real dipole). Perfect it. There isnt much that can go wrong, as long as it isnt shorted anywhere, you wont hurt anything, and it is THE tried and true ham antenna. Back to the basics once again. Tape it to the walls in your house, and try it. Move it from wall to wall til you find the best "wall". ( there is still a 10m dipole made of speaker wire taped to the wall above the bed in my old room at dads house. Been there for 30+ years, and it worked.) Then you can move it outside and play with it. It is only 18' long and easy to put up anywhere. Once you find out how to make it work, then you can play with other designs, but start with a proven design first.
And as mentioned earlier, check the radio hookups over well.
Many people do not understand END fed antennas including me
All i know is when i called radio wavz they said
"it needes no counter poise" It is built into the balaun"
Hence the term END FED
If it have a counter poise coming out one side it would no longer be END fed
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