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Going to get an antenna. Help!

longhaireddwb

longhaireddwb

W9WDX Amateur Radio Club Member
Oct 8, 2008
555
30
38
Colorado Springs, CO
I'm looking at the Cushcraft MA5V Antenna and I have a couple questions. I'm hoping with all the informed people on this site these questions will be simple for you all.

I now have a A-99 on a 30 ft. mast that I use for 11 meters. If I take this A-99 down and put the MA5V in its place will I be able to tune in 20 threw 10 meters including 11 meters?

Real stupid question now: Will I need to use my MFJ-949D tuner that I have to make it work correctly? I know. I'm sorry.

I know it states it works 20, 17, 15, 12, 10 but with a tuner couldn't I also tune in 40 and 11 and maybe 80?

I'm also looking into the G5RV but I just don't think I have the proper space to install it correctly.

Any comments would be appreciated.
 
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11,40 & 80 meters?

This is NOT a really good antenna for the bands it's desiqned for if you look at the gain figures & feedback on eham & other sites.It is almost just a rotatable dipole.It would work on 11 meters with a tuner but I doubt it would blow anybodys socks off since it does even NOT do that on the bands it was designed for.As for 40 & 80 meters it is WAY to SHORT even with a tuner that a simple dipole would make it appear that you were using a clothes hanger since the loss would be GREAT & I doubt a tuner could tune it for either of those bands.Remember that the tuner is just fooling the radio & is NOT really lowering the SWR just the appearance of an SWR so that the radio produces full output to the antenna.I use a Mosley TA-53M & it covers 10,12,15,17,& 20 meters & it stinks on 11 meters with a tuner & it has REAL GAIN on the 5 bands it's designed for just NOT MUCH front to back ratio but it does have an optional 40 meter rotatable dipole if you desire it.This antenna without the 40 meter add on weighs 55 lbs assebled so it's NOT designed for a push up pole either.Some of the GAP verticals work VERY well WITHOUT a single ground radial.Check the reviews again & see what works for you. :whistle:

73,
SIX-SHOOTER
 
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Thanks for your honesty on this antenna.
I'm at the point where I know I can get away with a vertical antenna but the ground radials are out.
What do you or anyone else have in mind when it comes to a good working antenna that will work for me and cover more than just one band? Maybe even 11 meter?
 
I agree with six-shooter 100%. You must remember that any small antenna is a compromise at best for the bands it was designed for and will be a poor performer on bands it was not designed for. You yourself must decide what kind of compromise you are willing to deal with. Any ham antenna will NOT tune to 11m unless you mess up the other bands or use a tuner. Using a tuner on a yagi not designed for 11m will often perform about as good as a dipole cut specifically for 11m so don't expect nearly the same performance. IMHO if you want 11m then keep the A-99 and mount it above a small triband yagi for 10,15, and 20m. Use a tuner on the A-99 for 12 and 17m but forget about anything lower. Sure it will tune but my tuner will tune a clothes hanger on 80m but it won't make much contacts except for the Worked All Computer Speakers award I am working towards. :D
 
:oops: Forgot to add. I am not a great fan of no radial verticles but if I had no choice I would consider one from Gap Antennas. The design is more along the lines of a shortened verticle dipole and requires no radials and they get fairly good reviews. Having said that ANY verticle antenn will benefit from adding radials.

GAP Antenna Products, Inc.
 
There are alternatives. Not good ones, but workable. back to that "what you are willing to put up with in lack of performance" type thingy.
If you already have a 30 foot pole, and can add maybe something between 15 and 25 feet to that pole, you have close to a 1/4 wave 80 meter vertical. If you can insulate the bottom of that pole from ground, old glass Coke bottle, Mason jar, whatever? Then run a few buried radials of about the same length give or take some, you can end up with an antenna -usable- on most other bands. Not good, but usable, which is better than nothing. You would definitely need a fairly wide range tuner and a hefty feed line between the tuner and the antenna.
Or, make the total height of that pole around 33 - 34 feet and you gotta 1/4 wave on 40 meters. Same tuner, radials, insulated from ground, etc.
Lot's of "fudge factor" in all that, but it's certainly do-able, and also certainly better than nothing.
I hate laying in radials! But, if you want decent performance they -are- needed, and the more the merrier. Radials in a symmetrical pattern are nice! But they don't have to be all that symmetrical. The resulting radiation pattern get's about as 'lop-sided' as those radials, but in most cases you'll never know it so who cares?
Hey, it's better than nothing, right?
Tuners.
I don't mind using a tuner. There's not as much 'loss' with them as you might think, and they are certainly handy thingys to have around, especially with non-resonant antennas.
Or just splurge and get an '18-HT' (High-Tower)! It don't get no better than that. After you put in all the work required for a good ground system!
- 'Doc
 
longhaireddwb said:
Thanks for your honesty on this antenna.
I'm at the point where I know I can get away with a vertical antenna but the ground radials are out.
What do you or anyone else have in mind when it comes to a good working antenna that will work for me and cover more than just one band? Maybe even 11 meter?
Click to expand...

When you say you can "get away" with a vertical it makes me wonder if there are some sort of restrictions, maybe homeowner association rules or just a small lot stopping you from a multiband wire antenna?

there are much better choices than a multiband vertical if you have room for wires, also using traps you can make the wire much shorter so it can fit inside the property.

UNADILLA
 
I guess I should explain a little better.

My mast I have right now with the a99 on top of is located on the side of the RENTAL I live in. It is also about 6 to 8 feet from the house next door. If I had radials they would be hanging over the house next door and I don't think they will go for that.

I also have a electric pole in the back corner of my lot and my power wires for the house come from that pole to about the middle of the house so running a wire/dipole across the trees and over the top of the power line is probably not a good idea.

I do have a horizontal pipe of the side of my mast at 20 ft that has a 2m/440 antenna on it. It is about 3 ft from the mast and the top of the 2m antenna is about at the bottom of the A99.

I'm starting to lean back towards a home made wire dipole again. It didn't work real well but it worked. Unless someone can help me figure out another option.

What about the G5RV? Opinions?
 
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After the idea of a new multiband antenna being put up in a week or so and after you all told me the truth about it. And the idea of it would need to be up higher and guy wires and ground radials (depending on the antenna) and the cost of all this...

I went outside and put up a wire dipole set to 40m. It ended up being 67 ft long. 1.3:1 tuned with my antenna analyzer. Solid core 12guage wire. I will have to make up a piece of coax to get it hooked up to my 949D tuner and Icom before I can give it a try.

I had a 80m length up at the old house and it wasn't straight and liad on top of the house. Now its shorter of corse and hung from the basketball hoop to the top of a tree. less than 10ft diff in elevation at the ends.

Hope it works out better than before. I'll keep you all informed on how it does. I'd say I'll contact you on 40 meters but I don't want to get cocky and sence most of you are on the east side of the states who knows.
 
Your QTH is do able from the East coast.

You should be able to work 15 meters on the third harmonics also no tuner required.


Follow some of the multiband dipole on the link I sent you and you can get 20 meters also. that will give you 15,20, and 40, one feed line no tuner required.

Did you use an rf choke or a 1:1 current balun at the feed point?

Google coax traps and there are some detailed instructions on how to build\homebrew your own traps and you can add that to the 40 meter dipole, extend it out a few feet and have 15,20,40, and 80 on two wires, direct feed with coax and no tuner required.

Dipole Antenna Radiation Patterns by WB4YJT

Here is some more good reading including dipole modeling of height and radiation pattern.

A good resonant dipole, installed correctly is a good antenna.
 
Still have lots of options with wire antennas rather than verticals!
It's always nice if you can get things arranged optimally, but less than optimally will work too. A very simple rule of thumb (ROT, I like that one :)) is to get as much as high as possible. Wire antennas can be bent, wiggled around/through things in some really weird shapes and work. The power drop to your house can be 'got around', or should say 'under' fairly easy. It's better not to parallel a power drop, but if it isn't for too long of a distance it won't make that much difference. It's better to keep the 'ends' of antennas out of, or from touching trees and things, but the middle parts don't usually have higher voltages on them. The high voltages at the ends of antennas can cause problems. Got enough room for a loop? Maybe running around the house in the trees, if any? That can certainly work.
A G5RV with that tuner should also be workable. It won't be much good except on 20 meters (which it was designed for), but it'll work.
Or forget the G5RV style and feed a doublet with open-wire or ladder line.
Or how about a random length wire as long as you can make it fit in, as high as you can get it? Going to need that tuner and a good ground system though. Forget ground rods, think radials in/on the ground at least as long as the random length wire. Will it work everywhere? Nope, not without some 'adjustment' in lengths, but longer is easier to tune than shorter.
If it's conductive it can be made into, or used as part of an antenna. That can mean window screens, rain gutters, and whatever. Use a little imagination...
- 'Doc
 
I like the loop idea. So long as you can get it up high enough above the structure and can get the right balun for it - sure. A nice antenna tuner would also be needed too.

What would I do in your circumstance? I think the long wire would make enemies with your neighbors. I see that as a major problem in your circumstance - regardless of what antenna you decide upon. That would be my first concern. Think the long wire would make it worse - but I don't have first-hand knowledge myself. Lots of reading on the long wire tells me they are a bit fussy to set up and potentially make a lot of TVI.

A Carolina Windom might work well. They can also be set up as an inverted "V". Odd length on either side of it might make it easier to fit in your location. Keeping the antenna no closer than 10 ft from any part of the roofline is necessary to keep the antenna from being detuned and from needing trimming the lengths.

Dos centavos . . .
 
G5RV

Just another 2 cents.I also have an ANTENNAS & MORE G5RV up at 49 ft & with a tuner it does a VERY GOOD job.It's NOT a yagi but I've worked the world on 10 thru 80 meters on it.Good luck on you antenna project.

SIX-SHOOTER(y)
 
I did not use a balun or choke at the feed point. I made the coax and got it ran and I'm picking up a few signals out there. Hard to say much about them as it was eating time so I had to shut it down. I ran the 40m dipole into the tuner and to the icom. After some tuning I'm receiving. My feed point is hanging out in the middle of the air about 15ft off the ground. So adding something to that point will cause the wires to hang lower.

OK, after some more reading I found that what I made is a 40M Doublet but its fed with rg58. Two wires the same length going in opposite directions. I thought that was a dipole. I'm not too sure if running some ladder line from the antenna to the house then to coax would be any different from just coax from antenna to house. It would be about ten feet long before I have to go to coax.

Looks like lots of work to go still. I'll give 15m a try and see what happens. Who knows. Thanks all and I hope this antenna get even better.
 

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