Hello I need help on deciding which antenna to get to work the hf bands. I'm on a budget, so thats why I been looking at dipole wire antennas. The 2 antennas i'm looking at is an n9hrp 10 thru 80 meters g5rv with 31 ft of 450 ohm ladder line terminating into a pl 259 and the n9hrp 10 thru 80 meters windom antenna that has a built in 4.1 balun and is off center fed. I don't have a lot of trees or anything else to hang the antenna from so until I get my tower up I was going to hang the antenna about 20ft high off the ground between 2 wooden post. Can any body give me some advice? Thank you.
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hf dipole antenna question
- Thread starter boxcar112
- Start date
Of the two antennas, and the mounting options you have, that 'Windom' is the only one that will work without some judicious 'wiggling' around a bit. That G5RV with the 31 feet of ladder line requires a minimum or 32 feet of mounting height to keep that ladder line from reaching ground level. So 20 feet wouldn't quite work unless you can figure a way of mounting things so the ladder line hangs sort of straight and tilted to one side? See what's happening there?
That ladder line is a part of the impedance matching 'device' for the G5RV. As such, you don't want to get it very close to things that will/can affect it, or change it's normal 'straight' shape very much. There is some 'wiggle room' with that, but not a great deal of it.
I think you might also remember that the G5RV is really just a 20 meter antenna that sometimes will load on other bands with the use of a tuner. It really isn't a "multi-band" antenna as it's touted to be. It can be made to 'work' on other bands than 20 meters, but not very well, which can be said for almost any antenna. A G5RV does what it was designed to do very well. Unfortunately, it's been misrepresented, or advertised, since it first became very well known.
The 'Windom' antenna you mentioned is really an 'OCF' or Off Center Fed antenna that's length is a 1/2 wave at the lowest band of use. A real-live 'Windom' antenna uses a single wire feed line and a very good radial ground system. The two are not the same at all even if they 'look' about the same. Sort of like calling a Ford a Cadillac because they both are the same size and have 4 wheels.
I know it sounds like I'm trying to talk you out of using either antenna, but I'm not. There are things about both the G5RV and a 'Windom' antenna that you should be aware of. Making you aware of those things is all I'm trying to do.
- 'Doc
That ladder line is a part of the impedance matching 'device' for the G5RV. As such, you don't want to get it very close to things that will/can affect it, or change it's normal 'straight' shape very much. There is some 'wiggle room' with that, but not a great deal of it.
I think you might also remember that the G5RV is really just a 20 meter antenna that sometimes will load on other bands with the use of a tuner. It really isn't a "multi-band" antenna as it's touted to be. It can be made to 'work' on other bands than 20 meters, but not very well, which can be said for almost any antenna. A G5RV does what it was designed to do very well. Unfortunately, it's been misrepresented, or advertised, since it first became very well known.
The 'Windom' antenna you mentioned is really an 'OCF' or Off Center Fed antenna that's length is a 1/2 wave at the lowest band of use. A real-live 'Windom' antenna uses a single wire feed line and a very good radial ground system. The two are not the same at all even if they 'look' about the same. Sort of like calling a Ford a Cadillac because they both are the same size and have 4 wheels.
I know it sounds like I'm trying to talk you out of using either antenna, but I'm not. There are things about both the G5RV and a 'Windom' antenna that you should be aware of. Making you aware of those things is all I'm trying to do.
- 'Doc
If you have 2 trees in the back corners of your lot, you may also want to look at a Loop antenna cut for 80 meters. An 80M Loop will work on all bands including 6 meters with a decent outboard antenna tuner. The loop will increase in gain as you increase in frequency and that are quiet antennas...very good against man made noise. You could use the 2 back corners of your house as the other 2 tie off points and make a square or rectangular shape. It's also cheap as it's just wire. They don't have to be high off the ground to work well. I've had several loops just like this and they've alsways been good performance. Plenty of info about loops on the net.
Good luck with whatever you choose!
Good luck with whatever you choose!
Good advice from Doc.
If you have enough room for those antennas, have you considered a fan dipole or a maypole type arrangement? An 80 and 40 meter dipole fed in parallel with the ends separated a bit will give you 80/40/15/10, and will be cheap. That was my only antenna the first couple of years I was a ham (inverted vees, with the feedpoint up in a pine tree) and while the match on 15 and 10 isn't spot-on perfect, it did work very well-- and without a tuner. Adding a pair of 20 meter wires to that would of course give you 20.
You may already know all this, of course-- but there are a lot of things you can do with just coax and wire that will give you efficient antennas without spending much money. If you did go the parallel dipole route, you'd need to support the feedpoint and may need to do that anyway if it's only going to be 20 feet off the ground.
If it were me and I were on a budget (aren't we all?), unless I already had a tuner I wouldn't be looking at antennas that require a tuner for multiband use, especially if this is going to be temporary-- that's why I was asking which bands are the most important to you.
Rick
If you have enough room for those antennas, have you considered a fan dipole or a maypole type arrangement? An 80 and 40 meter dipole fed in parallel with the ends separated a bit will give you 80/40/15/10, and will be cheap. That was my only antenna the first couple of years I was a ham (inverted vees, with the feedpoint up in a pine tree) and while the match on 15 and 10 isn't spot-on perfect, it did work very well-- and without a tuner. Adding a pair of 20 meter wires to that would of course give you 20.
You may already know all this, of course-- but there are a lot of things you can do with just coax and wire that will give you efficient antennas without spending much money. If you did go the parallel dipole route, you'd need to support the feedpoint and may need to do that anyway if it's only going to be 20 feet off the ground.
If it were me and I were on a budget (aren't we all?), unless I already had a tuner I wouldn't be looking at antennas that require a tuner for multiband use, especially if this is going to be temporary-- that's why I was asking which bands are the most important to you.
Rick
I don't have a antenna tuner yet I been looking at 2 of them desiding what tuner I want a ldg at-200 pro automatic tuner or a mfj 949e manual tuner.I'm geting a kenwood ts450s and a ts850s speaker plus a ts850s power supply from a friend of mine.I can't afford a amplifier so the only power I will be running is what ever the radio puts out.I been thinking about that to about how to route the ladder line with the antenna only 20ft off the ground.I don't have alot of tall things in my yard I only have one tree in my yard and it's only about 10 ft high.I geuss I will just get the windom style antenna so I don't have to mess with the ladder line since I can only put the antenna about 20ft high until I get my tower up.I am interested in working on 10 thru 80 meters only for now because I have a few friends on there i used to talk to on 11 meters.Later on I might put another antenna up to work the rest of the bands.A automatic tuner would be nice just go to a frequency and push a button but a ham I know said you can get a better swr match with a manual one.
I geuss so i'm new to all this hf stuff so I don't know what frequencys them are.I have a ham lisence already a technician class that i've had for about 8 years now.I just talked on 2 meters and 70cm for a long time.I been out of the radio stuff for a long time there isn't much to do in this little town I live in so thats one of the reason i'm get back in to ham radio and plus i'm tired of all the crazy stuff that goes on with the 11 meter band.I been studying for my general class lisence online on qrz I plan on taking my test geting my general class the next meeting my local amateur radio club has.
I'd go with the loop or the fan dipole. You could even make a coil loaded dipole for 80m, run ladder line to it and tune all the bands. I use that sometimes in my RV with the feed point only about 20 feet off the ground and have all kinds of fun.
Do you happen to own a soldering gun, or maybe a propane torch? Making one isn't that difficult at all. A 500 foot spool of wire will make more antennas than you'd ever believe, and at probably a 1/4 of the cost of buying an antenna (that's a guess about the cost, haven't bought any wire in a while).
- 'Doc
- 'Doc
And the quality will be better because you are building for yourself, with pride.
You can use any wire you might find. Strip out an old transformer or electric motor if cost is an issue. I have made more antennas using used wire and empty solder rolls for the center insulators. Be creative.
You can use any wire you might find. Strip out an old transformer or electric motor if cost is an issue. I have made more antennas using used wire and empty solder rolls for the center insulators. Be creative.
It would be nice to build my own fan dipole but I been doing some research on a 500ft roll of 14 awg wire and it's about 60 dollars plus shipping.I don't have any old exstintion cords or any thing that has a lot of wire in it laying around.I'm not a cheapo or any thing but I just think after buying all the stuff to make one I could have bought a decent one already made.I been leaning toward geting a windom style with a 4.1 balun power handling capacity 1kw rms 2kw pep off ebay item number 260475555073 made by
n9hrp for $49.99 plus $9.99 shipping and handling.I will be using about 25 ft or so of rg213 to connect the antenna to my tuner.I have made 2 meter antennas before that the only antennas I ever made.
n9hrp for $49.99 plus $9.99 shipping and handling.I will be using about 25 ft or so of rg213 to connect the antenna to my tuner.I have made 2 meter antennas before that the only antennas I ever made.
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