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Kicker K 500 Linear
- Thread starter Se7en
- Start date
The Kicker K 500 Rf Amp is 1 6lq6 driving 3 6lq6 sweep tubes.
Almost all of these were low drive, 3 or 4 watts key, about 15 at the most watts swing.
Look for about 200 on low and about 300 or so on high, like all the old sweep tube amps, you can beat them up and get bigger numbers, and short life from the tubes.
Remember that most of these were built for the CB market when radios did 3 to 4 watts and 10 to 12 pep, no dual final exports back then.
73
Jeff
Almost all of these were low drive, 3 or 4 watts key, about 15 at the most watts swing.
Look for about 200 on low and about 300 or so on high, like all the old sweep tube amps, you can beat them up and get bigger numbers, and short life from the tubes.
Remember that most of these were built for the CB market when radios did 3 to 4 watts and 10 to 12 pep, no dual final exports back then.
73
Jeff
Everything I've ever read about these old sweep tubers says don't overdrive them. In the original paperwork for the K-500 (and it's sister, the F-500) it specifically states NOT to use any type of driver with these amps.
Yup, that's what it says.
With a 4-watt drive I'm getting a 200 w DK and 300 swing out of mine with tubes testing in the 95% range.
Between the radio and the K-500 I run a swinger 205 set to the 'swing' mode. With the swinger running a pair of 6lq6 tubes that test in the 60% range and a slight detune it provides about a 6 watt DK with a 20-watt swing. Running this into the K-500 gets me about a 220 w DK and close to a 450 watt swing.
I do not use the driver amp when running SSB.
Everyone says running the driver (really more of a modulator) will shorten tube life but I've been at it for some time now and haven't experienced any problems with tube failure.
I've a good supply of 6lq6 tubes ranging from near-dead (15% emission) to near-new (95% emission). Obviously my strongest tubes are in the final output but was wondering what I should use in the driver stages. Since I'm driving the amp fairly hard am I better off using a weaker tube in the drive stage or a stronger one?
Oh, to answer you question, these are base models. I haven't converted mine from the old two-wire plug but am thinking about it.
Yup, that's what it says.
With a 4-watt drive I'm getting a 200 w DK and 300 swing out of mine with tubes testing in the 95% range.
Between the radio and the K-500 I run a swinger 205 set to the 'swing' mode. With the swinger running a pair of 6lq6 tubes that test in the 60% range and a slight detune it provides about a 6 watt DK with a 20-watt swing. Running this into the K-500 gets me about a 220 w DK and close to a 450 watt swing.
I do not use the driver amp when running SSB.
Everyone says running the driver (really more of a modulator) will shorten tube life but I've been at it for some time now and haven't experienced any problems with tube failure.
I've a good supply of 6lq6 tubes ranging from near-dead (15% emission) to near-new (95% emission). Obviously my strongest tubes are in the final output but was wondering what I should use in the driver stages. Since I'm driving the amp fairly hard am I better off using a weaker tube in the drive stage or a stronger one?
Oh, to answer you question, these are base models. I haven't converted mine from the old two-wire plug but am thinking about it.
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I have some experience with sweep tube amps I own two that use 6lq6 tubes.
The kicker 500 has a driver tube so you do not need much output. Keep in mind that CB's are limited to 4watts PEP from the OEM and many of them back in the 1960's,70's and such came out of the box with 3.5 watts PeP using Motorola transistors. So many of the tube amps if they have a driver in the front end of the input tuning section need only 1.5 to 3.5 watt's max to drive the final output tubes to full rms clean output power.
Non of mine use a 6lq6 as the drive tube mine use 6jg6 which has the same Noval pin set up but no cathode cap on top and functions at much lower power then the 6LQ6 family.
You need a scope to properly see what is going on but usually it is fairly safe to assume that you should be able to get about 80-90 watts per 6LQ6 tube in a clean harmonic free continuous output assuming the amp has a fan inside to keep them cool. The 6LQ6 can for short periods of time put out 200watts PEP but not for long. You would also be seeing some harmonic at that output level.
A lot depends on the emission level of the tubes too. I have two tubes tht are 95% and 97% in one amp and two that are 110% in another. One has a driver tube the other does not so the one with out the driver tube can easily be used with a radio with a very high output power with no modifications.
The unit with the weaker tubes has a fan and can do it's 200watts rms on AM all day long it has a fan like the HeathKit 220 I think it is. The unit with the higher output tubes and no driver can do 300watt's but not for long because it does not have a cooling fan.
So you have the condition of the tubes, any cooling issues, if it has a driver or no driver, the amount of power being sent to the tubes etc......all as factors. The 6LQ6 if I recall in typical operation likes 990 Volts but most Black Market amps only put about 700 volts into the plate. I have heard some did not even put that much which amazes me??? So output from one manufacture to another using sweep tubes is all over the place. Some OEM's had fantastic designs well thought out using top notch components for the time frame while other's looked like a blind man with a blowtorch and spool of solder put them together!
Ideally with old Black-Market amps replace all the caps unless they look modern and in good shape. Bring the power up slowly with a variac. Listen and look. Diodes will more then likely be ok if they look ok same goes for resistors if they look like they have gotten hot though just replace them especially in the rectifer section! Expect to need to clean the open relays.
The kicker 500 has a driver tube so you do not need much output. Keep in mind that CB's are limited to 4watts PEP from the OEM and many of them back in the 1960's,70's and such came out of the box with 3.5 watts PeP using Motorola transistors. So many of the tube amps if they have a driver in the front end of the input tuning section need only 1.5 to 3.5 watt's max to drive the final output tubes to full rms clean output power.
Non of mine use a 6lq6 as the drive tube mine use 6jg6 which has the same Noval pin set up but no cathode cap on top and functions at much lower power then the 6LQ6 family.
You need a scope to properly see what is going on but usually it is fairly safe to assume that you should be able to get about 80-90 watts per 6LQ6 tube in a clean harmonic free continuous output assuming the amp has a fan inside to keep them cool. The 6LQ6 can for short periods of time put out 200watts PEP but not for long. You would also be seeing some harmonic at that output level.
A lot depends on the emission level of the tubes too. I have two tubes tht are 95% and 97% in one amp and two that are 110% in another. One has a driver tube the other does not so the one with out the driver tube can easily be used with a radio with a very high output power with no modifications.
The unit with the weaker tubes has a fan and can do it's 200watts rms on AM all day long it has a fan like the HeathKit 220 I think it is. The unit with the higher output tubes and no driver can do 300watt's but not for long because it does not have a cooling fan.
So you have the condition of the tubes, any cooling issues, if it has a driver or no driver, the amount of power being sent to the tubes etc......all as factors. The 6LQ6 if I recall in typical operation likes 990 Volts but most Black Market amps only put about 700 volts into the plate. I have heard some did not even put that much which amazes me??? So output from one manufacture to another using sweep tubes is all over the place. Some OEM's had fantastic designs well thought out using top notch components for the time frame while other's looked like a blind man with a blowtorch and spool of solder put them together!
Ideally with old Black-Market amps replace all the caps unless they look modern and in good shape. Bring the power up slowly with a variac. Listen and look. Diodes will more then likely be ok if they look ok same goes for resistors if they look like they have gotten hot though just replace them especially in the rectifer section! Expect to need to clean the open relays.
Ok on the emission level of the tubes that is outside of my knowledge base or experience to keep this in mind. I would think you might need to check all the electrical properties that you use to design the tuning circuit. Why? Well at 15% emission level I have to think all of the electrical properties might be off enough to mess with the input and output tuning circuit????
In my book anything below 60% is time to be pitched as no good. I guess keeping a few like that around for emergencies would not hurt but I would not run them on purpose that is for sure. Kind of like keeping an old distributor cap, rotor and a spark plug or two or a spare condenser in the tool box of an old vehicle just in case.....You would not put those old heavily worn part on the car on purpose they are just their in case the new parts fail and you 1000miles from home in the middle of no where!!! Kind of like those tiny Space A spares you do not use them as part of your rotation plan but if you have a flat and need to make it home they do come in handy! SO tubes at 15% emission level should not be used on purpose ever in my opinion!
If you wanted to go to a 4 tube lay out it would not be that hard. You would have to add the socket tot he final area, you would need to make some minor tweaks to cap values and the input tuning would need to be connected to the final tube network since their would not be any tube in the input section anymore.As long as you can do a little bit of math and can solder decently it is not a big deal. Since it use's the same tube for drive as it does for the final all the voltages should be the same so you just need to move them to the new location.
Ideally you would want a radio that could do at least 40-63 watt's because that is prob. about the wattage they where using from the drive tube with 3.5 watt's in as a norm.
In my book anything below 60% is time to be pitched as no good. I guess keeping a few like that around for emergencies would not hurt but I would not run them on purpose that is for sure. Kind of like keeping an old distributor cap, rotor and a spark plug or two or a spare condenser in the tool box of an old vehicle just in case.....You would not put those old heavily worn part on the car on purpose they are just their in case the new parts fail and you 1000miles from home in the middle of no where!!! Kind of like those tiny Space A spares you do not use them as part of your rotation plan but if you have a flat and need to make it home they do come in handy! SO tubes at 15% emission level should not be used on purpose ever in my opinion!
If you wanted to go to a 4 tube lay out it would not be that hard. You would have to add the socket tot he final area, you would need to make some minor tweaks to cap values and the input tuning would need to be connected to the final tube network since their would not be any tube in the input section anymore.As long as you can do a little bit of math and can solder decently it is not a big deal. Since it use's the same tube for drive as it does for the final all the voltages should be the same so you just need to move them to the new location.
Ideally you would want a radio that could do at least 40-63 watt's because that is prob. about the wattage they where using from the drive tube with 3.5 watt's in as a norm.
@ ETR: Good point on the lower-emission tubes. About the only reason I keep it around (and it's only one that is 15%) is because these old sweepers are so pricey now I want to get every last bit of emission out of it. True, at 15% it won't do much... which is why I was wondering if that was the tube that should be used in the driver stage (after the modulator).
The conversion as you described it is about what I figured it would be. One thing I really like about these old amps is that there is plenty of room to work on them, since they didn't bother putting in such niceties as filtering or band switching! Perhaps when I get a better amp I might play with it some. Right now I'm squarely in the 'if it works, don't fix it' camp.
@ wavrider: I am aware that the difference between 300w and 450w will be imperceptible at the receiving end and that my tubes wouldn't have to work as hard at the lower level which is why I have decided to back off on it a bit more.
The conversion as you described it is about what I figured it would be. One thing I really like about these old amps is that there is plenty of room to work on them, since they didn't bother putting in such niceties as filtering or band switching! Perhaps when I get a better amp I might play with it some. Right now I'm squarely in the 'if it works, don't fix it' camp.
@ wavrider: I am aware that the difference between 300w and 450w will be imperceptible at the receiving end and that my tubes wouldn't have to work as hard at the lower level which is why I have decided to back off on it a bit more.
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i used to have a 321 and it was identical to my skipper300. 12 pin tubes, 1 x 3 and i used 6kd6 tubes to get 600wpep. i replaced the caps in the power supply section every 2 years and that kept it working like new. it originally came with 8950 tubes but they got outtasight expensive
Kicker K 500
I sure do like my K 500. Yes that is right about 200 watts on low and 300 on Hi. Mine does have a lot of swing to it. It will swing almost 700 watts. What i did was i mounted 2 12 volt fans on the back of it and use my 12 volt power supply to run the fans. This has worked out great. I hardly ever use it because there is no one around here to talk to. And even if they was someone around here to talk to i would not use it anyways. There is one person here that stays on 26.785 and he runs his linear just to talk to some of his buddys that only lives 1/2 mile or so from him. I look at it this way, If i had to use my K 500 to talk up to just a 1/2 a mile than i would throw my radio away and get something else. And its hard to understand him half the time. Sounds like he has a mouth full of S___. But i do not know why it is that the people he talks to does not tell him how bad it sounds. The other day i did turn on my K 500 and was on CB channel 8 and was tuning it up to see how it was working and this stupid person came down to channel 8 and was dead keying and whistling. I never said one word to him. The people in this town were i now live does not like it for some outsider come on 26.785 and try to just do some plain talking. I have been on the CB for years and i have lived in small towns and big towns and i have never seen anything like the people who lives here. If they do not know you they just will not talk to you. They have there on little group.
I sure do like my K 500. Yes that is right about 200 watts on low and 300 on Hi. Mine does have a lot of swing to it. It will swing almost 700 watts. What i did was i mounted 2 12 volt fans on the back of it and use my 12 volt power supply to run the fans. This has worked out great. I hardly ever use it because there is no one around here to talk to. And even if they was someone around here to talk to i would not use it anyways. There is one person here that stays on 26.785 and he runs his linear just to talk to some of his buddys that only lives 1/2 mile or so from him. I look at it this way, If i had to use my K 500 to talk up to just a 1/2 a mile than i would throw my radio away and get something else. And its hard to understand him half the time. Sounds like he has a mouth full of S___. But i do not know why it is that the people he talks to does not tell him how bad it sounds. The other day i did turn on my K 500 and was on CB channel 8 and was tuning it up to see how it was working and this stupid person came down to channel 8 and was dead keying and whistling. I never said one word to him. The people in this town were i now live does not like it for some outsider come on 26.785 and try to just do some plain talking. I have been on the CB for years and i have lived in small towns and big towns and i have never seen anything like the people who lives here. If they do not know you they just will not talk to you. They have there on little group.
Sounds like a little slice of heaven to me.
Driving my K500 with a tuned Connex saturn CX-33, I see about the average 200 watt DK and swinging to 325-350 with the RF power on the lowest setting, with RF turned up to 5 it will put out 450 but starts to sound like crap with any additional drive. I know even on low I am overdriving it a little but it don't seem to mind....yet.
I never over drive mine. I only run it around 100 watts on low and that gives me more than i need.