Need mobile antenna to go with new vehicle and radio

[Chameleon Antenna]

Coming from someone who clearly has no understanding of the product, it's philosophy behind and obviously doesn't own any of them. Blindly repeating the same thing over since the last 10 years when we introduced our first antenna.

A screwdriver will ALWAYS be more efficient on 40M and 80M than just any other mobile vertical whips. The idea behind the Chameleon Antenna products is multi-purposes, portability and versatility. Indeed you'll be able to make DX with the above setup (V1 + HYBRID-MINI) from USA to UK, Japan, Australia or to just about anywhere else around the world. The product exist for about 10 years already: http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/7950

"For me a vehicle antenna is made to talk locally or regionally. I don't really care talking with someone on Sweden while I'm driving on the 405 to go to work" Yes and it's my personal preference and I'm sure you've yours. Knowing what is going on at 5000 miles away while I'm driving is not relevant for me at the moment. What is relevant while I'm driving is what is happening within 50 to 75 miles radius.

If I want to do DX then I'll at least going to do it in an environment that I'll enjoy. I'll do it at home, at the shop, on a camping ground or at the park with a hot coffee, a glass a wine or a cold beer and I'll do it with a portable station, with 25W or less using the same equipment mentioned above!

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

You should be able to work into the USA from the UK on 20m with a wet noodle for an antenna. It's only about 4500 miles to the center of the country and less than 3500 miles and all water to the east coast.My crappy 20m Hamstick regularly works well down the African continent from West Africa to South Africa, Swaziland etc which is almost 8000 miles again mostly over water. Australia not so common due to frequency of propagation but still quite workable. Europe is boring to work to tell the truth since it is so easy. 100 watts is all I have too. I know Hamsticks are poor antennas but you don't need expensive whizz-bang antennas on 20m and up to work the world. The REAL need for good efficient antennas is on 40m and down. THAT is where the boys are separated from the men so to speak.

 

[Tallman]

If you can find someone with a Little Tarheel II, borrow that, stick a 6ft whip on it and do a comparison to the Chameleon especially on 20m and 40m.

If you know of someone who would be willing to loan a working one or sell it dirt cheap I would be happy to do a side by side comparison. It would be very easy since I have antenna switches and miles of brand new cable. I could do that very easily.

 

[Tallman]

If I want to do DX then I'll at least going to do it in an environment that I'll enjoy. I'll do it at home, at the shop, on a camping ground or at the park with a hot coffee, a glass a wine or a cold beer and I'll do it with a portable station, with 25W or less using the same equipment mentioned above!

I totally agree with that. When I am playing in DX land I have an audio recorder running to capture the call signs of contacts and so I can record them in my station logs. Necessary equipment for me to play in DX land is a coffee pot or single brew machine near by, a bathroom, and my Sweety in a good mood in the process of making food.

 

[Chameleon Antenna]

The REAL need for good efficient antennas is on 40m and down. THAT is where the boys are separated from the men so to speak. [...] The REAL need for good efficient antennas is on 40m and down. THAT is where the boys are separated from the men so to speak.

You see, when you've organizations like the New York King County ARES and the Red Cross that are using your products on NVIS (40M to 80M) for EMCOMM on their emergency vehicles, then it's probably because the antenna is doing what it's designed to do!

NVIS on ARC command bus with the CHA V1

Their NVIS overall maximum coverage should have been about 300 to 400 miles radius.

Letter of satisfaction from the Emergency Coordinator for King County ARES, New York.

The same Emergency Coordinator (KC2NBE) operating his personal vehicle and with the CHA V1 antenna installed on a NVIS (40M - 80M) COMM on a Toyota Prius. This model is probably 5 to 6 years old.

An antenna is a tool and you need to chose the right one for your needs. We design things that are very innovative, versatile, performant and multi-purposes.

The above system can also be used to make manpack systems like the ones below.

​

The same system can be used portable at the park.

Or used as a base station antenna.

But you can use it you truck if you want:



Or even on your bicycle too:



Cheers,

Carl

​

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

With all due respect Carl, NVIS is not a real great example since one of the most effective NVIS antennas is a dipole mounted only 10 feet or so above the ground. Even very inefficient antennas work fairly well on 40/8m NVIS. It is truly amazing what even just 3 or 4 watts of actual radiated RF will do on those bands at times. I did some 80m mobile years ago and had all kinds of fun even with crappy antennas. My regional coverage out to about two hundred miles was often as good as my 45 foot high dipole at home. Beyond that things changed however I was often able to work all down the east coast to Florida and into western Europe on 80m mobile with 100 watts.

 

[Moleculo]

I cleaned out some of the unnecessary noise from the thread in the interest of keeping the discussion going forward on a friendly tone.

I think the main point being discussed / debated is that with mobile HF antennas, EVERYTHING is a trade-off or compromise of some sort, so you have to: 1. Define your objectives. 2. Pick your weapon of choice. 3. Decide if your objectives have been met, and adjust as necessary. 4. Remember that EVERYTHING is a trade-off or compromise.

If your goal is to put together the most bad-ass HF mobile station you can that is still able to drive around town, you're going to go with something like the Hi-Q or a screwdriver antenna. And then you will have to decide how to deal with the mechanical strain on the entire system and vehicle from such a heavy antenna. If your goal is to just get on HF cheaply, you might choose hamsticks or something like that. Their performance isn't very good, but you can have fun.

The point is that whatever you choose, you are making a trade-off for something else. But if you can meet your objective, then you've reached your goal. Usually EMCOM stations like those in use by the Red Cross, ARES and MARS have very specific goals and choose the antennas they do carefully to meet those goals (As the State Training Officer for Navy MARS for about 7 years, I have a pretty good handle on this subject). And don't forget, your objectives can change over time.

Anyway, just this last weekend, I was discussing with a local his desire to put exactly the type of mobile antenna that Carl has posted pictures of on his off-road vehicle. He likes the Hi-Q, but dealing with the mechanical aspects that come with it is not something he wants to do. And he fully understands the efficiency trade-offs. So, it's like I was saying earlier: pick your weapon of choice.

 

[M0GVZ]

Coming from someone who clearly has no understanding of the product, it's philosophy behind and obviously doesn't own any of them. Blindly repeating the same thing over since the last 10 years when we introduced our first antenna.

I understand antenna theory so I know how your product works. Its the same as all of these wide banded short antennas. Shove 100W through it, put your hand on the matching section and it'll get very warm because most of your power is being turned into heat, not emitted from the antenna.

"Blindly repeating the same thing the last 10 years"

That's because the laws of physics and antenna theory hasn't changed in respect to antennas like these.

From your website:

The bandwidth capability of the Chameleon Antenna provides reliable and efficient communications.

No it doesn't, its not efficient at all and the lower the frequency the lower the efficiency to we get to the point on 80m that it will be measured in fractions of a single percent.

 

[The DB]

You see, when you've organizations like the New York King County ARES and the Red Cross that are using your products on NVIS (40M to 80M) for EMCOMM on their emergency vehicles, then it's probably because the antenna is doing what it's designed to do!

I am a member of a local EMCOM group, at least for us it isn't about how well the mobile antenna works on those frequencies, it is more a reliability thing, namely that it will still work when we need it to.

Now about how well such an antenna will work on said frequencies...

A screwdriver will ALWAYS be more efficient on 40M and 80M than just any other mobile vertical whips.

Your making a claim based on efficiency of a 40/80 meter mobile antenna? Really... ok...

A full length 10 meter antenna with no loading coil will struggle to get 25% radiation efficiency even mounted at an optimal location on a large SUV or van. The problem isn't the matching system of the antenna (this case doesn't have one), but its proximity to the earth.

Lower the frequency to 40 and 80 meter band frequencies and that gets much worse. Add in the loading needed to get a match at said frequency and the efficiency gets even worse (seriously, the most you could load even a full length 102 inch whip and still maintain a semi reasonable efficiency is 20 meters, if the matching is done well). The fact is that by the time you get to the 40 and 80 meter ham bands your efficiency is shot to hell for several reasons. There is no such thing as an efficient 40 or 80 meter mobile antenna, no matter how you build it. Say you were able to break the laws of physics and somehow achieve a match that is twice as efficient of a matching system as some other mobile 40/80 meter antenna, once you factor in the proximity of the earth below the antenna, you still have single percentage point differences in radiation efficiency, and even with that you still won't notice the difference between other mobile 40 and 80 meter antennas in the real world.


The DB

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

IIRC the Texas Bugcatcher beat the screwdriver antennas hands down in several trials. The problem with screwdriver antennas is that they are generally but not always wound with too small wire and they are all base loaded. They work well but there are better performing antennas but they tend to be big and ugly. LOL

 

[binrat]

For some reason I thought that the Texas Bugcatcher was a thing of the past. Just looking seems they are still around.

 

[Road Squawker]

You see, when you've organizations like the New York King County ARES... that are using your products on NVIS (40M to 80M) for EMCOMM ...

Well, Gee, I went to the KINGS County ARES site, https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...s.com/&usg=AFQjCNFd4WkFjMyrF45GEkcvYethr4KThA and they don't show any of this equipment, in fact, it looks like they do ALL their comms on their VHF/UHF repeaters.

40 and 80 meters are not even mentioned in their emergency activation plans.

KINGS COUNTY FREQUENCIES
In the event of an EMERGENCY or an ACTIVATION please
monitor the WA2JNF (KC 1) repeater

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

For some reason I thought that the Texas Bugcatcher was a thing of the past. Just looking seems they are still around.

The original Bugcatcher has not been made for years but someone started building them again a few years ago. The one MFJ has or had is not as good. There is also a Carolina Bugcatcher that is similar IIRC.

 

[Moleculo]

Well, Gee, I went to the KINGS County ARES site, https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjZu4mlrqLKAhUGRCYKHX34DvUQFggcMAA&url=http://kingscountyares.com/&usg=AFQjCNFd4WkFjMyrF45GEkcvYethr4KThA and they don't show any of this equipment, in fact, it looks like they do ALL their comms on their VHF/UHF repeaters.

40 and 80 meters are not even mentioned in their emergency activation plans.

KINGS COUNTY FREQUENCIES
In the event of an EMERGENCY or an ACTIVATION please
monitor the WA2JNF (KC 1) repeater

If you read the letter from them that he posted, it notes that they are using the Red Cross EMCOM station, which is the picture of their van. Many Red Cross stations are also SHARES or MARS stations. If so, they won't publish anything about the HF frequencies they operate on as they are For Official Use Only and not for publication. If they're SHARES or MARS, they're also outside the ham bands. The letter indicates that they used the products during a regional EMCOM test, which sounds consistent with the types of activities that SHARES and MARS do frequenctly.

 

[Chameleon Antenna]

40 and 80 meters are not even mentioned in their emergency activation plans.

I do not know if they're still using that. That test was made in 2011 and we're now in 2016. I was trying to find the same thing too las time.

Carl