Retailers Breakin the Law?

[bandaid kid]

CWM

NTIA rules do not "trump" FCC rules nor vice-versa. They're different jurisdictions that arise. FCC rules have no relavence to NTIA rules and vice-versa. Niether is in any control over the other. Niether is "better" than the other and neither outranks the other nor contradicts the other. Completely seperate from each other.

 

[Moleculo]

I don't disagree with you CWM about the fact that the NTIA has jurisdiction over FEMA. The conflict that I see is that FEMA purchased radios from a civilian business that is governed by the FCC's rules saying that the civilian business may not market or sell the product in the U.S. In my mind, if FEMA wanted those radios, fine...who cares...but they should have purchased them through a channel that doesn't put the business in a position of breaking the law that the business is bound by. The problem here is that FEMA is correct in their actions, but the business is always wrong. Even my mom taught me when I was a little boy that a Right combined with a Wrong, is always Wrong.

Another thing...none of this is hearsay because it came directly from the source that sold the radios.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

The more I follow this thread the more confused I get. :? I need a drink. Since all of this really has no bearing on me here in Canada I think I will just watch the post count add up from the sidelines.

 

[Moleculo]

Since all of this really has no bearing on me here in Canada

Hey QRN, that's an interesting sidebar...Is all of this stuff simpler or worse in Canada?

 

[embalmer42]

man you got to watch this thread cause seems like some folks have there ass on the dashboard!!!!!!!!

GOD I LOVE IT!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:


From the crypt keeper!!!!

 

[C W Morse]

Yes why not make the whole cw sub band on 10 useless with beacons? Makes perfect sense to me, talking about cutting your nose off to spite your face sheeeeezzz!!!!!!!!!

Yes. Always a "catch"! Sure would screw up those boys with their "extree channels" and make 'em useless, tho.

But then, perhaps, we should have more 10 Meter CW contests! That's legal. I've heard some of the bandits whining about not being to get over all the beep-beep stuff during contests! :twisted: Serves 'em right!


CWM

 

[C W Morse]

I don't disagree with you CWM about the fact that the NTIA has jurisdiction over FEMA. The conflict that I see is that FEMA purchased radios from a civilian business that is governed by the FCC's rules saying that the civilian business may not market or sell the product in the U.S. In my mind, if FEMA wanted those radios, fine...who cares...but they should have purchased them through a channel that doesn't put the business in a position of breaking the law that the business is bound by. The problem here is that FEMA is correct in their actions, but the business is always wrong. Even my mom taught me when I was a little boy that a Right combined with a Wrong, is always Wrong.

Another thing...none of this is hearsay because it came directly from the source that sold the radios.

But you are ignoring the INTENT of the law of favor of the LITERAL words.

"The conflict that I see is that FEMA purchased radios from a civilian business that is governed by the FCC's rules saying that the civilian business may not market or sell the product in the U.S." The rest of the sentence should read "

[/i]to civilian sources or other entities in which FCC rules would be violated". Or something like that. We know how the gov't isn't all that good at spelling something out so us civilians can understand them.

Since the source didn't SELL it in a manner that voilated FCC regulations, but to an agency under which there is no restriction on the sale in the civilian market, no law or regulation was broken. *Maybe* it should be that way, but it is not depending on whose eyes are viewing it.

OH! I just thot of something. FEMA probably has some frequency allocations in the "freeband". So to buy the Ranger radios that would cover that band would still not voilate anything because it has nothing to do with CB. Federal agencies don't USE licensing; it is called "AUTHORIZATION".
I don't know it fer sure, but from I have learned, it is likely the Feds can use whatever meets their needs and *our* civilian perceptions don't count! Prolly? Ya reckon!

CWM

 

[C W Morse]

I don't disagree with you CWM about the fact that the NTIA has jurisdiction over FEMA. The conflict that I see is that FEMA purchased radios from a civilian business that is governed by the FCC's rules saying that the civilian business may not market or sell the product in the U.S. In my mind, if FEMA wanted those radios, fine...who cares...but they should have purchased them through a channel that doesn't put the business in a position of breaking the law that the business is bound by. The problem here is that FEMA is correct in their actions, but the business is always wrong. Even my mom taught me when I was a little boy that a Right combined with a Wrong, is always Wrong.

Another thing...none of this is hearsay because it came directly from the source that sold the radios.

But you are ignoring the INTENT of the law of favor of the LITERAL words.

"The conflict that I see is that FEMA purchased radios from a civilian business that is governed by the FCC's rules saying that the civilian business may not market or sell the product in the U.S." The rest of the sentence should read "

[/i]OR to civilian sources or other entities in which FCC rules would be violated". Or something like that. We know how the gov't isn't all that good at spelling something out so us civilians can understand them.

Since the source didn't SELL it in a manner that violated FCC regulations, but to an agency under which there is no restriction on the sale in the government/military market, no law or regulation was broken. *Maybe* it should be that way, but it is not depending on whose eyes are viewing it.
The Feds can buy Icom 706s or Kenwood TS2000's if they want to--or mil spec radios from Harris Communications. CB folks STILL can't use them on CB because they are not certified under FCC rules.


OH! I just thot of something. FEMA probably has some frequency allocations in the "freeband". So to buy the Ranger radios that would cover that band would still not violate anything because it has nothing to do with CB. Federal agencies don't USE licensing; it is called "AUTHORIZATION".
I don't know it fer sure, but from I have learned, it is likely the Feds can use whatever meets their needs and *our* civilian perceptions don't count! Prolly? Ya reckon!

CWM

 

[Sonwatcher]

I thought it was the "selling" and offering for sale that is illegal in the United States. If FEMA bought them didn't they encourage the seller to break the law ? The law on the sellers end doesn't specify a buyer just that by US law he cannot sell them in the US.

 

[snoope]

You know what CW,you win. :roll: :roll: .I'm going to sell all my export equipment.......Super Tune the 'lil Uniden and throw a YAESU
FT7800R beside it....then I'll be able to talk to Y'all grown ups...... ...


Then again hel1 is not going to freeze soon either...

Enjoy your holidays.....Me and mine will also. 8) ..


This "Game" has run it's course with me and neither of our opinions will change a "dam" thing....


Snoope back quietly hiding in the snow.....Ho-Ho-Ho

 

[Moleculo]

Let me try another angle on this. Even though it may be legal for FEMA to use whatever radio they want, the way they obtained it is wrong (I'm no lawyer, but that's how it appears to me). This principle holds true for civilian and government: If you obtain any legal product through illegal means, then you have broken the law. Now, if the intent of this particular law is otherwise, then what we have here is a double standard and FEMA's actions are unethical at best. Again, it's just like the government FDA official that needs to do lab research on crack so he goes down to the local street corner to buy it. If he had a perfectly legit reason for having it, he should obtain it from authorized sources. It gets right back to the "legal" vs. "right" discussion.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

It gets right back to the "legal" vs. "right" discussion.

Oh man how many times has that conflict come up especially when the government/law is involved? :?

As to your question Mole,I am not really sure just how it really affects me here.I am not aware of any official list issued by Industry Canada regarding what is legal and what is not as far as "export" radios is concerned.I do know that the largest ham radio store in Canada does in fact advertise openly the "Ranger 2950DX 10m 11m and 12m radio" Check out www.radioworld.ca. The only thing I know is that many years ago Canada and the USA agreed that what was generally certificated (I hate that term) in one country was generally certificated in the other.That was due to following the same technical guidelines and made it easier for both countries to put forth new products into the hands of the consumer.In this case where the beef is not really about a technical performance issue but rather an attempt to curb operations out of band then that becomes a differant issue.I guess until we hear something is illegal then it will be assumed to be legal for it's MARKETED purpose ie. amateur radio.My feeling is that the 2950DX etc. may be on the FCC's banned list but no such list exists here in Canada therefore they are legal to be sold as amateur radios.Operation on 11m however is on the same playing field as in the USA.

 

[chipotle]

There are no restrictions on the sale of 10 meter amplifiers in Canada. If you disagree, show me the "Part 97" for Canada. Canada only outlaws the use on 11 meters. But has no restrictions on the sale.

 

[C W Morse]

I thought it was the "selling" and offering for sale that is illegal in the United States. If FEMA bought them didn't they encourage the seller to break the law ? The law on the sellers end doesn't specify a buyer just that by US law he cannot sell them in the US.

He can't sell them in the CIVILIAN market.

CWM

 

[C W Morse]

CWM

NTIA rules do not "trump" FCC rules nor vice-versa. They're different jurisdictions that arise. FCC rules have no relavence to NTIA rules and vice-versa. Niether is in any control over the other. Niether is "better" than the other and neither outranks the other nor contradicts the other. Completely seperate from each other.

Clout-wise, NTIA, indeed, trumps FCC. For example with the so-called "freeband" we always talk about. *Much* of that area above and below 27 MHZ is controlled by NTIA. FCC cannot arbitrarily say, "OK, we will just expand 20 channels up and 20 channels down. Nope. No can do. That is why CB is pretty much stuck where it is because NTIA has a MUCH higher say-so than FCC does.

CWM