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102" whip vs the rest

well , if someone is happiest with their tx and rx using a dummy load for an antenna id suspect that they don't have anything to say that i would want to hear in my receive .
so ..... yes , a dummy load would be the very best antenna for someone like that , IMHO :)

of course if you put a coil and a top hat on the dummy load it will perform even better :)
 
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W5LZ said:
How well you hear depends on the radiation pattern of an antenna. A 102" whip, a 1/4 wave length antenna, has one pattern. Longer antennas (to a point) tend to have larger patterns, or patterns that cover more area. Antennas that are shorter than the 1/4 wave but use a loading coil to make it 'seem' like a 1/4 wave, have a slightly lesser area of coverage than the 'full sized' antenna. It's a function of the overal length that determines pattern shape and 'size'. The shorter antenna may load just like a 1/4 wave (or a 1/2 wave, or a 5/8 wave or whatever) but just will not have the same radiation patter as the full sized one, always less. Now, having said all that (and it's a fact), a full sized antenna has practical draw backs. Depending on just how tall/long the full sized antenna is, it'll probably be a huge P.I.T.A. on a mobile cuz it's gonna be in the way at least part of the time. Or it'll sway at speed and give different loading characteristics. So, shortened antennas are worth the trouble even if slightly less than 'perfect' (whatever the @#$$ that means anyway).
Coils do not render any miraculous properties to antennas. At most, they will make the thing load like the real-live size would. At worst, they introduce losses that counteract any so-called 'gain' claimed. (Ain't no gain to it, that's a sales hype.) It's all a matter of adding the proper reactance to a too-short antenna to make the radio think it's the real thing. Sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings, but it's true none the less. They do look impresive though, don't they? Another feature of coils is that they tend to indicate a 'broader' usable frequency range. The key words there are "tend" and "indicate". The actual usable frequency range is actually less than a 'full sized' antenna when you consider efficiency, not what the SWR meter says. So, that aspect is another 'sales hype' thingy. The thing to do is take the 'practical' aspects in to consideration. You can just see your self driving down the street with a 5/8 wave antenna (about 22 feet?) on the car, right? So shortened antennas, any antenna with a loading coil, certainly do come in handy. Don't attribute any miraculous properties to them though, just ain't gonna happen.
That help any?
- 'Doc
Click to expand...
Doc, how many loaded coil antennas have you compared with a 102 whip in the real world? Kale
 
MrSuburban said:
So because you may be happy with a dummy load for a antenna that makes it the best?
Click to expand...

The type mobile antenna will vary with the installation.

A 102" whip on an escort may not perform as well as one on a full size pickup.

Keep in mind the ground plane effect of the vehicle has a great influence on the performance of the antenna.

In some circumstances a mag mount in the middle of the roof will out perform an 102" whip on the bumper.

As booty stated it is whatever antenna performs the best for the op using it.
Whatever makes the user happy.

Antennas are designed to do one thing, radiate. Some do it better than others. Many shapes and sizes, different configurations etc.etc.

As far as a dummy load being used as an antenna? I have talked 10 miles on my dummy load in the shop, located inside a metal building, both TX and receive. 27mhz.

Cantenna oil filled with 12 watts SSB. That is almost as good as some mobile antennas on the market today.
 
10k223 said:
Doc, how many loaded coil antennas have you compared with a 102 whip in the real world? Kale
Click to expand...

This outta be good,:pop::pop: now were talking "Real World"

Kale, since you replied this can give you a good chance to put the naysayers to rest.

Can you give us your testing parameters that you use for testing. Such as type of vehicle, distance tested , how and what you took the readings with etc etc, I hope you can provide those answers (y)
 
LoneWolf TN said:
I've tested the 102" whip against both MrCoily and Predator10K antennas
on my pickup truck parked in my driveway, talking 23 to 25 miles away to several base stations. The Coily and the 10K both outperformed the 102" whip. Why you ask? I haven't a clue.

LoneWolf TN
Click to expand...

I'd be curious to see your variations in mounting which caused the performance difference. Obviously something was working in your favor.

Which one was cheapest?
Advantage : 102" whip
 
wavrider said:
The type mobile antenna will vary with the installation.

A 102" whip on an escort may not perform as well as one on a full size pickup.
Click to expand...

It may not but have you ever tested to see if it did? Ever see a Honda Gold Wing with a 1/4 wave antenna mounted 3' off the ground out perform a suburban with a 1/4 wave antenna mounted on the roof?. This wasnt done in a back alley there were hundreds of people around at a keydown.


Keep in mind the ground plane effect of the vehicle has a great influence on the performance of the antenna.
Click to expand...


Really, at the Jacksonville NC keydown this past year a Ford Ranger basically beat all the suburbas with similiar antenna systems, also see above



In some circumstances a mag mount in the middle of the roof will out perform an 102" whip on the bumper.
Click to expand...

I can believe that and would expect it to, a base antenna leaning agaisnt a shed wont work as good as a dummy load in a metal building either, but what happens when they are put in the same location? See Above



As booty stated it is whatever antenna performs the best for the op using it.
Whatever makes the user happy.
Click to expand...

That doesnt make it the best antenna, it just makes it the one you are happy with. There are many idiots on CB who have no clue what works better than another like I siad you may be happy talking on your dummy load does that make it the best antenna?



Antennas are designed to do one thing, radiate. Some do it better than others. Many shapes and sizes, different configurations etc.etc.
Click to expand...

Thanks for learning me this is all new stuff :glare: Do RX antennas radiate also?

As far as a dummy load being used as an antenna? I have talked 10 miles on my dummy load in the shop, located inside a metal building, both TX and receive. 27mhz.

Cantenna oil filled with 12 watts SSB. That is almost as good as some mobile antennas on the market today.
Click to expand...

:w00t: you should start selling dummy loads then if you can talk 10 miles on it from inside of a building... Cause it has no use as a dummy load
 
Last edited:
MrSuburban said:
This outta be good,:pop::pop: now were talking "Real World"

Kale, since you replied this can give you a good chance to put the naysayers to rest.

Can you give us your testing parameters that you use for testing. Such as type of vehicle, distance tested , how and what you took the readings with etc etc, I hope you can provide those answers (y)
Click to expand...
I asked Doc a question and I'm waiting for his answer.
 
10k223 said:
I asked Doc a question and I'm waiting for his answer.
Click to expand...


I asked you one and am waiting for your answer so I guess were even, Will Doc's answer make your reply different? or perhaps you wont disclose your "Real World Test procedure" for fear of ridicule? Perhaps you should have posted what you dont agree with Doc's statement, again fear of ridicule or you gonna point us to the ARRL book again and cite something that isn't related to the topic at hand.
 
Kale,
If you mean on 11 meters, then the answer is one. If you mean a loaded antenna and a 1/4 wave antenna on other bands, several.
- 'Doc
 

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