AMPLIFIERS/ TUBES OR TRANSISTORS?

WMS · Jul 24, 2016

Decisions, Decisions... ??? It's your $$$...
The Radio has a built-in Antenna Tuner, so SWR should not be a problem...
What are you running for Coax ?
I see you mention an Imax Antenna... It seems, one can never have enough Antenna...
For DX, you might want to consider a Directional Antenna...
I'm cheap... SO, I built my Own Antenna, a 4 Element Cubical Quad Directional Antenna... Plenty of Information on the Internet that enables one to build their Own Antenna of their choosing... Including Antenna Modeling Software...
You seem to want to stay on 11 Meter, or thereabouts...
You say you have plenty of Amplifiers already... ??? Why get another one ???
Work on better Antenna... It works, BOTH ways, Transmit and Receive...
As far as the mention of Tube Audio... Blind Sound Test on CB ??? Even marginally noticeable is, NOTICEABLE... It either IS, or IS NOT, and you say, IT IS...
You obviously don't Run a Tube Radio on CB... I DO... AND anyone familiar with a Tube Radio can pick-out someone running a Tube Radio on CB... Yeah, I have Radios with a Ping or the Signature Browning Feedback Squeal, which makes it obvious it's a Tube Radio...Well, some use a "Fake" Ping, but that is ANOTHER Story... BUT my Tram D201A does not Ping... MANY CB Operators KNOW I am running a Tube Radio, local or DX... AND I do not have to tell them I am... I use Astatic D104 Microphones on my Tube Radios...
It is " The Warm Sound of Tubes "...
Sure.... You can spend Thousands of Dollars to make a Plastic Radio reproduce the Sound of Tube Emulation...
http://motormouthmaul.com/index.html
Have a look around the website... More importantly.... LISTEN...
Don't tell me, YOU don't want to Sound like Him...
LOOK what he uses to SOUND like that.... ????
http://motormouthmaul.com/mmm2_002.htm
I ask WHY not just use " The REAL thing " ??? I DO....
I LIKE TUBES... Even on the HAM Bands... I like my Antiques !!!
I have Tube Equipment from the 1940's, 50's, 60's and 1970's...
I run a Tube Transmitter on 10 - 80 Meter from the Mid-1950's... A Barker and Williamson 5100 Transmitter... It weighs 87 Pounds (Eighty Seven)... They sure don't make them like they used to... LOL...
To Each, Their Own.... You can keep your Plastic Radios...
I own 1, Run by this Computer, 10 - 160 M All Modes... I am NOT fond of it, at all...
I use a Heil Microphone with it and it still sounds like Crap to me...
http://www.heilsound.com/
Everyone will do as He / She pleases when it comes to their Own Equipment, regardless...

Captain Kilowatt · Jul 24, 2016

A lot of that "difference in tube sounds" is related to the rest of the radio's circuitry and not just the tubes themselves. Tubes can handle short term overloads like voice peaks better and may smooth out the distortion cause by that a little and that results in a warmer sound but properly adjusted and tuned I pretty much defy anyone to tell me the difference between a tube TX and a solidstate TX unsolicited. Some folks even think that just because their radio has tube finals like my TS-820S sound different but the audio characteristics have already been determined before the signal reaches the 12BY7 driver tube and most of that is because of transformers and not the tubes themselves.

WMS · Jul 24, 2016

Well Yes, the Sum of all Parts makes up the Whole... Garbage In, Garbage Out... But it still passes through the Tubes, which undoubtedly has an Effect...
People desire "Certain Effects" that only can be had using certain Tubes... For example RCA 6L6 Family... Some want Grey Plates, some want Black Plates, some want certain Getters... All claiming to have differing Effects upon the Sound they Produce... Same can be said about a Number of Tubes from a Number of Manufacturers...
I'm most happy with my Tram D201A for 11 Meter that I owned since NEW in 1978... I paid $795.00 for the Radio in 1978... It's a Hybrid, having Transistors and Tubes mounted on Circuit Boards... 15 Vacuum Tubes in there... All General Electric Tubes as one can determine by GE's "Tell-Tale" Sandblasted "Dots" on the Glass... All 15 Tubes STILL Factory and have the Tram Logo on the Glass...
For me, it's Tubes, Tubes and more Tubes... I have plenty of Spare Tubes for my Radios that will last me, my lifetime...

fourstringburn · Jul 24, 2016

WMS said:
Decisions, Decisions... ??? It's your $$$...
The Radio has a built-in Antenna Tuner, so SWR should not be a problem...
What are you running for Coax ?
I see you mention an Imax Antenna... It seems, one can never have enough Antenna...
For DX, you might want to consider a Directional Antenna...
I'm cheap... SO, I built my Own Antenna, a 4 Element Cubical Quad Directional Antenna... Plenty of Information on the Internet that enables one to build their Own Antenna of their choosing... Including Antenna Modeling Software...
You seem to want to stay on 11 Meter, or thereabouts...
You say you have plenty of Amplifiers already... ??? Why get another one ???
Work on better Antenna... It works, BOTH ways, Transmit and Receive...
As far as the mention of Tube Audio... Blind Sound Test on CB ??? Even marginally noticeable is, NOTICEABLE... It either IS, or IS NOT, and you say, IT IS...
You obviously don't Run a Tube Radio on CB... I DO... AND anyone familiar with a Tube Radio can pick-out someone running a Tube Radio on CB... Yeah, I have Radios with a Ping or the Signature Browning Feedback Squeal, which makes it obvious it's a Tube Radio...Well, some use a "Fake" Ping, but that is ANOTHER Story... BUT my Tram D201A does not Ping... MANY CB Operators KNOW I am running a Tube Radio, local or DX... AND I do not have to tell them I am... I use Astatic D104 Microphones on my Tube Radios...
It is " The Warm Sound of Tubes "...
Sure.... You can spend Thousands of Dollars to make a Plastic Radio reproduce the Sound of Tube Emulation...
http://motormouthmaul.com/index.html
Have a look around the website... More importantly.... LISTEN...
Don't tell me, YOU don't want to Sound like Him...
LOOK what he uses to SOUND like that.... ????
http://motormouthmaul.com/mmm2_002.htm
I ask WHY not just use " The REAL thing " ??? I DO....
I LIKE TUBES... Even on the HAM Bands... I like my Antiques !!!
I have Tube Equipment from the 1940's, 50's, 60's and 1970's...
I run a Tube Transmitter on 10 - 80 Meter from the Mid-1950's... A Barker and Williamson 5100 Transmitter... It weighs 87 Pounds (Eighty Seven)... They sure don't make them like they used to... LOL...
To Each, Their Own.... You can keep your Plastic Radios...
I own 1, Run by this Computer, 10 - 160 M All Modes... I am NOT fond of it, at all...
I use a Heil Microphone with it and it still sounds like Crap to me...
http://www.heilsound.com/
Everyone will do as He / She pleases when it comes to their Own Equipment, regardless...

It's all in your head! It's a preconceived notion once you know a tube amp/radio is on the other end. It's also a visual thing, the glowing tubes look cool!

Browning's with pings, aah yes TUBES!!!

Motormouth Maul?...fantastic genius with distorted audio that is heavily EQed. Just what I want to aspire to someday and just what WE would all love to hear everybody an the airwaves sound like.

As I said before, CB's and HF rigs aren't HI-FIDELITY audio equipment which is obvious enough with a narrow bandwidth where HI-FI can produce full bandwidths of 20 Hz to 20 KHz. That's a fact you and Motormouth Maul can't ignore or probably understand.

Tube stuff is great and so is Solid state, each have their advantages and disadvantages.

Sonar · Jul 24, 2016

nnbogy

WMS said:
Decisions, Decisions... ??? It's your $$$...
The Radio has a built-in Antenna Tuner, so SWR should not be a problem...
What are you running for Coax ?
I see you mention an Imax Antenna... It seems, one can never have enough Antenna...
For DX, you might want to consider a Directional Antenna...
I'm cheap... SO, I built my Own Antenna, a 4 Element Cubical Quad Directional Antenna... Plenty of Information on the Internet that enables one to build their Own Antenna of their choosing... Including Antenna Modeling Software...
You seem to want to stay on 11 Meter, or thereabouts...
You say you have plenty of Amplifiers already... ??? Why get another one ???
Work on better Antenna... It works, BOTH ways, Transmit and Receive...
As far as the mention of Tube Audio... Blind Sound Test on CB ??? Even marginally noticeable is, NOTICEABLE... It either IS, or IS NOT, and you say, IT IS...
You obviously don't Run a Tube Radio on CB... I DO... AND anyone familiar with a Tube Radio can pick-out someone running a Tube Radio on CB... Yeah, I have Radios with a Ping or the Signature Browning Feedback Squeal, which makes it obvious it's a Tube Radio...Well, some use a "Fake" Ping, but that is ANOTHER Story... BUT my Tram D201A does not Ping... MANY CB Operators KNOW I am running a Tube Radio, local or DX... AND I do not have to tell them I am... I use Astatic D104 Microphones on my Tube Radios...
It is " The Warm Sound of Tubes "...
Sure.... You can spend Thousands of Dollars to make a Plastic Radio reproduce the Sound of Tube Emulation...
http://motormouthmaul.com/index.html
Have a look around the website... More importantly.... LISTEN...
Don't tell me, YOU don't want to Sound like Him...
LOOK what he uses to SOUND like that.... ????
http://motormouthmaul.com/mmm2_002.htm
I ask WHY not just use " The REAL thing " ??? I DO....
I LIKE TUBES... Even on the HAM Bands... I like my Antiques !!!
I have Tube Equipment from the 1940's, 50's, 60's and 1970's...
I run a Tube Transmitter on 10 - 80 Meter from the Mid-1950's... A Barker and Williamson 5100 Transmitter... It weighs 87 Pounds (Eighty Seven)... They sure don't make them like they used to... LOL...
To Each, Their Own.... You can keep your Plastic Radios...
I own 1, Run by this Computer, 10 - 160 M All Modes... I am NOT fond of it, at all...
I use a Heil Microphone with it and it still sounds like Crap to me...
http://www.heilsound.com/
Everyone will do as He / She pleases when it comes to their Own Equipment, regardless...

Lmr 400 (lmr 240 jumpers)
No room for a beam.
All the amplifiers I own were built specifically for the 11 meter band. You know the names.
Palomar,d$a,pride etc etc.
Amps not know For high quality standards when building comes to mind (biasing ect ect).
Don't get me wrong these amplifiers have served me well but I feel I would finally like to own and a amplifier of quality. I'm not going to use my ft 950 to drive a Palomar 300 a. I'm happy with my IMAX 2000. I'm not happy with the placement of it. It is only ten feet off the ground in my backyard and there is little doubt that this is causing my high SWR and reflected power. I will be totally honest even at 10 feet off the ground the IMAX performs as well or better in the receive and transmit Department of many other local stations who are using better antennas at the proper wavelength. If I hear them and I usually do they will hear me. It's very rare that I have to call twice. Before I purchase another piece of equipment whether it's a dollar or $1,000 my antenna situation has to be straightened out and I know this.
It's very possible that after my antenna is up high where it belongs the 100 watts might be all I need.
No amp required.

Atlasta · Jul 24, 2016

Buying that first 'real' amp is quite the adventure.

Like you, I'm steeped in sweep tube amps... always love the way they sounded, very forgiving... you know the drill..

You are wise to not attempt to run any of the CB amps behind the 950. With a low enough drive you could probably get away with it but as you correctly realized 'it just isn't right'...

Don't even think about running a sweep tube amp behind the 950. If it's anything like the hatefest that was the attempted pairing of a 718 and a Phantom... just don't try it. They will NOT like each other...

Much as I love tubes though, when the time comes for me to upgrade power (after the tower goes up!) I'm looking at the newer 50 V solid state amps. Pricey, but exceptionally well made and with so many internal protections it's almost foolproof.

Sonar · Jul 24, 2016

Atlasta said:
Buying that first 'real' amp is quite the adventure.

Like you, I'm steeped in sweep tube amps... always love the way they sounded, very forgiving... you know the drill..

You are wise to not attempt to run any of the CB amps behind the 950. With a low enough drive you could probably get away with it but as you correctly realized 'it just isn't right'...

Don't even think about running a sweep tube amp behind the 950. If it's anything like the hatefest that was the attempted pairing of a 718 and a Phantom... just don't try it. They will NOT like each other...

Much as I love tubes though, when the time comes for me to upgrade power (after the tower goes up!) I'm looking at the newer 50 V solid state amps. Pricey, but exceptionally well made and with so many internal protections it's almost foolproof.

Your advice is accepted..
I'm curious about the outcome of pairing a 718 with a phantom. I am not 100% sure of the 718 specs but I do believe on many HF transceivers one could usually drop the output down to 5 Watts on AM.
I've known and know people who drive phantoms and the like with more than 5 watts. Not me! 11/2 dk with 10 pep on AM and 11-13 on SSB. That goes for every amp I own.
The Palomar 300 a can be driven between 10 and 100 watts as long as it's tuned up and operated in the low position only.
Once in low the two drivers are disabled making it possible to drive with high output.
I've never done it or considered it. PS I'm gonna be parting with several pieces of equipment soon. If you or someone you know might be interested let me know and I'll send you a pm when I post them. I need to take new photos as the phantom has been rebuilt since these photos were taken. All caps replaced with those metal flame proof ones.
HV section also. fan was disassembled lubed. It's the single item I'm gonna miss. Everything thing I'm selling is in similar condition. I'm keeping the junk for myself. It's really a very clean phantom as is everything else I'm parting with. Good luck my friend. 73

Atlasta said:
Buying that first 'real' amp is quite the adventure.

Like you, I'm steeped in sweep tube amps... always love the way they sounded, very forgiving... you know the drill..

You are wise to not attempt to run any of the CB amps behind the 950. With a low enough drive you could probably get away with it but as you correctly realized 'it just isn't right'...

Don't even think about running a sweep tube amp behind the 950. If it's anything like the hatefest that was the attempted pairing of a 718 and a Phantom... just don't try it. They will NOT like each other...

Much as I love tubes though, when the time comes for me to upgrade power (after the tower goes up!) I'm looking at the newer 50 V solid state amps. Pricey, but exceptionally well made and with so many internal protections it's almost foolproof.

Captain Kilowatt · Jul 24, 2016

WMS said:
Well Yes, the Sum of all Parts makes up the Whole... Garbage In, Garbage Out... But it still passes through the Tubes, which undoubtedly has an Effect...

People desire "Certain Effects" that only can be had using certain Tubes... For example RCA 6L6 Family... Some want Grey Plates, some want Black Plates, some want certain Getters... All claiming to have differing Effects upon the Sound they Produce... Same can be said about a Number of Tubes from a Number of Manufacturers...

This is right up there with the audiophiles I mean audiophools that claim they can hear the difference oxygen free speaker cable makes or that the AC outlet must be gold plated. I used to work with someone who was arguably the best audio and RF engineer east of Toronto having worked on many CBC productions, many of them live, and he used to just laugh at notions like that. Even his highly tunes ear was not reliable when determining if a transmitter was tube or solidstate. sadly he passed away last month. RIP Dave.

I'm most happy with my Tram D201A for 11 Meter that I owned since NEW in 1978... I paid $795.00 for the Radio in 1978... It's a Hybrid, having Transistors and Tubes mounted on Circuit Boards... 15 Vacuum Tubes in there... All General Electric Tubes as one can determine by GE's "Tell-Tale" Sandblasted "Dots" on the Glass... All 15 Tubes STILL Factory and have the Tram Logo on the Glass...
For me, it's Tubes, Tubes and more Tubes... I have plenty of Spare Tubes for my Radios that will last me, my lifetime...

I like tubes to a point, mainly that they are easy to work on and forgiving of slight errors and tolerant of voltage variations. they also have a certain "coolness" to them.

Sonar · Jul 24, 2016

Captain Kilowatt said:
This is right up there with the [slash]audiophiles[/slash] I mean audiophools that claim they can hear the difference oxygen free speaker cable makes or that the AC outlet must be gold plated. I used to work with someone who was arguably the best audio and RF engineer east of Toronto having worked on many CBC productions, many of them live, and he used to just laugh at notions like that. Even his highly tunes ear was not reliable when determining if a transmitter was tube or solidstate. sadly he passed away last month. RIP Dave.

I'm most happy with my Tram D201A for 11 Meter that I owned since NEW in 1978... I paid $795.00 for the Radio in 1978... It's a Hybrid, having Transistors and Tubes mounted on Circuit Boards... 15 Vacuum Tubes in there... All General Electric Tubes as one can determine by GE's "Tell-Tale" Sandblasted "Dots" on the Glass... All 15 Tubes STILL Factory and have the Tram Logo on the Glass...
For me, it's Tubes, Tubes and more Tubes... I have plenty of Spare Tubes for my Radios that will last me, my lifetime...

I like tubes to a point, mainly that they are easy to work on and forgiving of slight errors and tolerant of voltage variations. they also have a certain "coolness" to them.[/QUOTE]
For some reason their so much cooler in the winter months. I guess that's kind of an oxymoron

Captain Kilowatt · Jul 24, 2016

Sonar said:
I like tubes to a point, mainly that they are easy to work on and forgiving of slight errors and tolerant of voltage variations. they also have a certain "coolness" to them.

For some reason their so much cooler in the winter months. I guess that's kind of an oxymoron[/QUOTE]

Summer or winter makes no difference as long as the lights are out in the shack at night.

Sonar · Jul 24, 2016

Captain Kilowatt said:
For some reason their so much cooler in the winter months. I guess that's kind of an oxymoron

Summer or winter makes no difference as long as the lights are out in the shack at night.

[/QUOTE]
I have to agree they are freaking cool when the lights are out. The 4 screws that hold the top cover on to my 2340 are in a plastic bag next to the radio. It not only helps keep it cool as they do run very very hot but they just look cool with the lights out.

Captain Kilowatt · Jul 24, 2016

Sonar said:
Summer or winter makes no difference as long as the lights are out in the shack at night.

I have to agree they are freaking cool when the lights are out. The 4 screws that hold the top cover on to my 2340 are in a plastic bag next to the radio. It not only helps keep it cool as they do run very very hot but they just look cool with the lights out.[/QUOTE]

A single 4-400C or an 833A/833C make nice mood lamps in the shack when mounted and the filament lit.

833A

Sonar · Jul 24, 2016

Captain Kilowatt said:
I have to agree they are freaking cool when the lights are out. The 4 screws that hold the top cover on to my 2340 are in a plastic bag next to the radio. It not only helps keep it cool as they do run very very hot but they just look cool with the lights out.

A single 4-400C or an 833A/833C make nice mood lamps in the shack when mounted and the filament lit.

833A

[/QUOTE]
Now that's a tube! My friend Artie Arthur windjammer (RIP) would remove the cove on his Viking 500.
With the room lights off those 811's had the coolest purplish blueish glow I'd ever seen. It was a long time ago but that's the way I remember it.

Captain Kilowatt · Jul 24, 2016

Sonar said:
A single 4-400C or an 833A/833C make nice mood lamps in the shack when mounted and the filament lit.

833A

Now that's a tube! My friend Artie Arthur windjammer (RIP) would remove the cove on his Viking 500.
With the room lights off those 811's had the coolest purplish blueish glow I'd ever seen. It was a long time ago but that's the way I remember it.[/QUOTE]

That is a single 833C. The top pins are the grid (on the right) and the plate (on the left). The filament pins are on the bottom and require 10 volts at 10 amps to light them. One of those has a plate dissipation of 350 watts. I serviced many 1 Kw AM broadcast transmitters that had a pair in the RF finals which were plate modulated by a pair of them in audio service. The TX cabinet looked pretty cool with the four of them lit in the dark along with six 807's as well.

fourstringburn · Jul 24, 2016

Captain Kilowatt said:
This is right up there with the audiophiles I mean audiophools that claim they can hear the difference oxygen free speaker cable

Sounds like you're taking a shot at the people who buy into the Monster Cable marketing hype.

How dare you do such a thing!

I have seen their top of line HDMI cables go for over $200.00. The best always cost more!

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AMPLIFIERS/ TUBES OR TRANSISTORS?

WMS

BANNED

Captain Kilowatt

Professional Amateur

WMS

BANNED

fourstringburn

W9WDX Amateur Radio Club Member K5KNM

Sonar

Sr. Member

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Atlasta

Well-Known Member

Sonar

Sr. Member

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Captain Kilowatt

Professional Amateur

Sonar

Sr. Member

Captain Kilowatt

Professional Amateur

Sonar

Sr. Member

Captain Kilowatt

Professional Amateur

Sonar

Sr. Member

Captain Kilowatt

Professional Amateur

fourstringburn

W9WDX Amateur Radio Club Member K5KNM

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