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Bought a HF Rig.....Except the Antenna

Robb

Robb

Honorary Member Silent Key
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Dec 18, 2008
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Silicon Valley CA, Storm Lake IA
You've probably read on another thread here on WWRF, that I bought a Icom IC-718, LDG Z-100, and a Samlex 25 amp supply recently. And yes, I am an Tech Amateur. There have been more than a few threads about MF/HF multiband antennas here, and I have read a lot of them. I also posted a similar thread on qrz forums on this subject. But I would like all of your inputs - if you would, as members of WWRF that I read and enjoy the most.

Here's my problem: My property is rectangular shaped(of course); it is far shorter north to south and wider east to west. The dimensions are 55 feet due N/S; and 100 ft due E/W - that's the perspective view. A dipole would have to be oriented twards the E/W because of the property shape; and that won't work as far as I can see from here. But I want/need and E/W orientation for the US, Europe, and Japan - this is what I see as the plan IF a dipole is selected. And 55 ft isn't enough room and would be awkward - if not impossible - to set up. That's my problem...

The folded dipole has been my consideration because of its great low SWR, can use it on 160 meters (or even a smaller 80 meter version - for that matter) all the way down to 2 meters - but will not fit on my property - due to the short N/S length. So, I am considering verticals rather than dipoles that give me the best bang-for-buck as well as the greatest band usage for about $300-$350 cost. I want to mount it on my chimney and use 20 ft of masting w/guy support.

What do you recommend? What do you use? Do any have similar problems with antenna choice? Do verticals make a noisy IC-718 radio even noisier? GAP Challenger/Titan DX or the Hustler 4-5-6 BTV's? Or ??? Do you like what you have and know of a better antenna solution? I know that there are always trade-offs and no one antenna is perfect - but what do you like and can it be applied to my situation?
 
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Antenna

What are you going to do about your counterpoise? Unless you have a steel roof, that will be an important consideration. Get an antenna book and consider a loop antenna.
 
:) Rob, i would stil mount a dipole nw/se thats how my homebrewed "cobra sr." is because thats how it fits for what i have to work with. is it iaeal ,no. but it's better than nothing. I have a gap Titan, it's strapped to the back fence. I will be putting up a hustler 6BTV this spring, from DX Engineering. is it the best, no but it will be better than my gap. I can load up my metal shed and put out a better signal on 75/80 than the titan. Anyway this post is about you not me, I would put up both ones going to always be better than the other at one time or another. experiment and see what works for you, and have fun 73.:thumbup:
 
packrat said:
What are you going to do about your counterpoise? Unless you have a steel roof, that will be an important consideration. Get an antenna book and consider a loop antenna.
Click to expand...
Huh? counterpoise? you mean a ground for a BTV the titan doesn't have a ground. I don't think a dipole will require one.:confused:
 
Don't be too sure of that N/S, E/W thing! There is such a think as a 'polar' path, which is typically a shorter route than an E/W one. And how directional a dipole is depends almost entirely on it's height above ground. If you can't get it about 1/2 wave length above ground, don't count on it being very directional. Some, sure, but don't think that it won't 'hear' off the ends too, cuz it will. Most of the 'typical' HF dipoles are not very directional at all. You're a far cry from being "out of luck" because of the shape of your property, so try one first. Wire antennas are much cheaper than commercial verticals so 'playing' with them really doesn't cost that much. A 500 foot spool of wire is less than a tank of gas, and I'll bet you have a pair of wire cutters and a yardstick. If you can't get several dipoles out of that, you just ain't trying very hard :). The hardest part about making a dipole is just the fact that you haven't made one before. After that first one, the rest are easy. Do it! Do it!
- 'Doc

(There's no real great benefit in a 'folded dipole', it's still a 1/2 wave long, same as a 'regular' dipole, same basic performance, just made out of a different kind of wire with a different input impedance. Make the thing twice as long, sort of spread them wires apart, and you got a full wave loop, and there really -can- be a difference with that antenna. It'd still fit on your lot, too.)
 
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I ordered the ARRL antenna book for just this reason, Like Doc said, I'd try the wire first. I have an odd shaped lot, and my trees don't exactly line up perfectly, but when I finally get an HF rig...(and I'm hoping it too is the IC-718).... I'm going to try both a dipole, and maybe even an end fed sloper....
 
Counterpoise

Dont believe that stuff. Any vertical works better with a good counterpoise. It is a ground plane afterall. No, dipoles dont need one as they are not groundplanes, and work one leg against the other. Best money you can spend will be the ARRL antenna hand book or some varient, and a roll of wire.
 
Well, I'm going to guy-wire it up close the base of the antenna itself. I'm going to buy - or make - a stainless steel chimney attachment/mount to support the base of the 20 ft of masting. Considering that the vertical antennas listed above range from 21 ft to 29 ft in length themselves, the 20 ft of masting and 8 ft of roof height should give me a total height of 49-58 ft to the tip/height to ground surface.

I am also equally concerned about the noise factor. The Icom IC-718 is not known as being a 'quiet' radio; so the noise input from these choices are also a major consideration. I am also considering selling the Samlex switching P/S and getting a transformer-designed 25-40 amp supply in order to ensure less noise due to the power supply induced noise that switching supplies are known for. It is an entry-level Ham radio that has simple functions, and since I am new to Ham - I consideri it indispensable. I really like the numeric-frequency input, which simplifies its use even further.
 
N2ITH said:
I ordered the ARRL antenna book for just this reason, Like Doc said, I'd try the wire first. I have an odd shaped lot, and my trees don't exactly line up perfectly, but when I finally get an HF rig...(and I'm hoping it too is the IC-718).... I'm going to try both a dipole, and maybe even an end fed sloper....
Click to expand...

Tony,
Add a loop to your list. Odd shaped lot and trees that don't line up perfectly? Can you get a square or delta shaped wire loop up horizontally? Doesn't even have to be one of those shapes. Use as much wire as you need to encompass as much area as you can, feed it with window or ladder line down to a balun then to a tuner or a tuner that has its own balun and get on the air. Of course I'm biased on this. This was just about the only option for me based on the location of power lines near my property.
 
packrat said:
Dont believe that stuff. Any vertical works better with a good counterpoise. It is a ground plane afterall. No, dipoles dont need one as they are not groundplanes, and work one leg against the other. Best money you can spend will be the ARRL antenna hand book or some varient, and a roll of wire.
Click to expand...
i think you are confusing the ground plane below a vertical, with a counterpoise such as your elevated antennas such as a typical cb. unless it's one of those end fed 1/2 wave types (A99) I due agree with get some books and read, and verify any info you get on the internet. Oh yeah most important thing is to have fun! Doc usually gives really good advice, i don't have the patience he has to explain things
 
The A99 was suggested for the lower bands, and I have been reading up on all of the designs and types of available antennas. I have a Archer 1/2 wave up for the CB still; I'm gonna keep that up on my garage/hamshack.

The GAP Challenger/Titan seems to have lost the competition of performance. They are decently priced - though. The Hustler 4/5/6 BTV's are also within my price range too. The Butternut antennas seem to be the most desirable because of very satisfied users reviews, that also put down the GAP/Hustler brands in the same breath. Anyone know about the Butternuts or own one - or knows someone that does?

I need to get the ARRL antenna book soon, so that will be on my 'to do list' for Monday. I see the need for getting an antenna switch and making a wire antenna as well - so I can switch between the two of them. I've got a sixty-foot pine tree to my N/E corner of the property; maybe a slant random-length wire will work as the second antenna...
 
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I don't know if any of you have ever seen this or read it, but it said an awful lot to me. Maybe some of you can find it as helpful as I did.
"Dipoles vs Verticals"
Dipoles versus Verticals

After reading this article, it looks as if having a 6 position antenna switch just isn't enough. It depends upon how much one can work a radio and how much is enough. Having a 10-80m dipole, a 160m slope, a A99 10-17m, and a 20-80m vertical seems to be the most likely way to do it - at this point anyway. There are still two SO-259's left to work with on that switch - I guess...
Enough said?
 
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Rob,
I think Mr. Odry pretty well got as close to a typical experience as you can get. I think that if you 'read between the lines' a little bit, you will also see that there are no 'one' best antennas for everyone. Only the 'best' for a particular situation and purpose. Even then there are usually several other choices that would give the same results, but just don't 'fit' the situation for some reason. I honestly think that half the 'fun of it' is figuring out (try all them thingys!) what works the best for you, where ever you happen to be living at the time.
Nothing wrong with wanting the 'best' of whatever it is you're talking about, but there's also nothing wrong with not having the 'best' either. The 'steps' between 'good' and 'gooder' get very, very small when you are at either end of that scale. I've found that the last couple of few 'steps' just really weren't worth the bother. Sure, I had to try it, but later decided I could have $aved a fair amount of time/trouble and not really been 'out' anything. That's something you have to decide for your self.
I'm not a particular 'fan' of vertical antennas. Nothing wrong with them, just not one of my favorite things. So, won't waste your time with any recommendations for one. Mr. Ordy was right, you do get what you pay for, to some ridiculous extent, so the 'quick-n-dirty' answer is usually just that, quick and dirty. Some times, that fills your needs just dandy, so wouldn't rule them out.
Believe it or not, no matter how you feel about it now, you've got lots of time to do all that 'trying out' stuff. And if you never run into one of those, "I ain't never doing that again!", situations you just ain't got there yet ;). The 'biggy' is to have fun in the trip...
- 'Doc


(Sound sort of like the 'Master' pontificating from on high?? Oh boy is that sooo wrong! I wish I had a nickle for every, "I ain't never...", I've ever had.)
 

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