Capacitance Hat's Don't add Audio

[Moleculo]

to be really polorized you would have an 180 degree phase shift correct ???


what i am saying is the top hat changes the take off angle slightly lower compared to a stick straight up antenna. not a complete split in half polorize shift. but the top hat will change it by a difference. i cannot measure the exact angle with some good test devices . try it some time for real.

So you can't measure it, you can't model it, you can't cite any credible sources, but you know it to be so based on blind faith. Awesome.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

sure it will . 1st depends of the shape, thickness, and how much material is used to make the top hat or cap hat.
2nd how much more resonat is the top hat in relationship to the coil underneath it .
3rd the desired frequency the antenna is made for maximum gain.




now pick 1 out of them , they are all correct .

I just can't believe anyone would even ask that. The hat nor the coil is resonant. Together they add reactance that works together with the rest of the antenna to form a complete resonant antenna. The top hat and coil do not form a resonant circuit per-say.

 

[High Voltage Mobile NJ]

So you can't measure it, you can't model it, you can't cite any credible sources, but you know it to be so based on blind faith. Awesome.

if your a ham u can measure it !!! lol its not blind faith . i use the top hats along with corona balls they work . your missed the phase shift , oh well.
i cant talk with an ignornat person . back to the beach . lol

 

[Moleculo]

if your a ham u can measure it !!! lol its not blind faith . i use the top hats along with corona balls they work . your missed the phase shift , oh well.
i cant talk with an ignornat person . back to the beach . lol

I was asking YOU to tell us how YOU know this to be true, which you have yet to even attempt. You have given us nothing but an obvious example of how deeply entrenched these bogus beliefs are. There are pages and pages of technical discussion in this thread that explain the how and why of what cap hats do and don't do. Apparently you decided not to read any of it and simply label those that disagree as "ignornat". LOL. Oh the irony...

 

[W5LZ]

High Voltage Mobile NJ,
I think maybe you should listen to your own advice, it certainly wouldn't hurt from what I've seen posted here by you.
- 'Doc

 

[High Voltage Mobile NJ]

I just can't believe anyone would even ask that. The hat nor the coil is resonant. Together they add reactance that works together with the rest of the antenna to form a complete resonant antenna. The top hat and coil do not form a resonant circuit per-say.

do your math to. one part of the feed line can always be more resonat . go back to the books son , lol

 

[loosecannon]

HV, why dont you do everyone a favor and take the time to actually learn something.
if you take the time to read this whole quote, and then respond with your argument of the facts i have stated, then i will be genuinely impressed.

i doubt you will read it, and im pretty sure you will just come back with some BS, and then we will all be sure that you tried, but just couldnt understand it.

if you cannot understand what is written below, then your arguments have no basis.

ok, because i think Homer has a point, i think its only fair for me to lay out what my "beef" with MrCoily stems from.

its the slick AKA false advertising. He knows exactly what he is doing when it comes to how he words his ads, and the unsuspecting buyer; looking for any little edge in competition or everyday use, spends his hard earned money on something that doesnt do as well as something he could have bought for 20 bucks. (like a full size 1/4 wave radiator)

for example, here are a few quotes from MRCoily's site:

"Capacitance hat - This is a device sometimes found at the end of an element. It can be a cross, a disk, a ball, a loop, or just about anything conductive. It makes the element behave as if it is longer, maybe 10%-30% longer than it really is. It can save space with Gains in performance!"

"Forcing more signal/audio up top also adding exceptional recieve"

"Audio Ball design provides increased receive and added performance"


MrCoily knows full well that his antenna is a compromise in comparison to a full sized 1/4 wave radiator, but trys to make it seem as if his designs are actually increasing the performance over that of a full sized 1/4 wave radiator, instead of lessening the compromise, which is all they are doing.

MrCoily, if you will post here in this thread that your loaded antenna would have to defy the laws of physics to outperform a full sized 1/4 wave radiator when all other conditions are taken as being equal, then i will drop it.
until then, you are either uninformed or a liar. take your pick.

if you are just uninformed, please read on. (Homer, this is my take on what you and shockwave are discussing)

(all taken from the ARRL handbook, since that seems to be the reference we are already using)

this section refers to the 10 meter band because it contends that its the only band for which a full size 1/4 wave whip antenna would be feasibly mounted on a vehicle.

"with the whip adjusted to resonance in the 10-meter band, the impedance at the feedpoint will appear as a pure resistance at the resonant frequency.
This resistance will be composed almost entirely of radiation resistance, and the efficiency will be high.
However, at frequencies lower than the resonant frequency, the antenna will show an increasingly large capacitive reactance and a decreasingly small radiation resistance."

this means that when the antenna is shorter than a full sized 1/4 wave radiator on its intended frequency, the reactance increases, thereby reducing efficiency.

"the capacitive reactance can be canceled out by connecting an equivalent inductive reactance in series, thus tuning the system to resonance.
Unfortunately, ALL COILS HAVE RESISTANCE, and this resistance will be added in series. While a large coil may radiate some energy, thus adding to the radiation resistance, the latter will usually be negligible compared to the loss resistance introduced, however, adding the coil makes it possible to feed power to the circuit."

now here is where MrCoily is, as i see it, intentionally misleading his potential buyers. This is all in reference to whips that are too short and need to be loaded with a coil to be brought to resonance.

"the radiation resistance of the whip can be approximately doubled by placing the loading coil at the center of the whip, rather than at the base.
HOWEVER, the inductance of the loading coil must be approximately doubled over the value required at the base to tune the system to resonance. For a coil of the same Q, the coil resistance will also be doubled."

Here is where MrCoily gets his claims about capacity hats. we must remember that all of this is in reference to antennas that are too short for the band they are operating on, and therefore must be loaded to be brought into resonance. LOADING ALWAYS CONSTITUTES A COMPROMISE!!!

"since the coil resistance varies with the inductance of the the loading coil, the coil resistance can be reduced by reducing the number of turns.
This can be done, while still maintaining resonance, by adding capacitance to the portion of the antenna above the coil. This capacitance can be provided by attaching a capacitive surface as high up on the antenna as is mechanically feasible.
Capacitive "hats", as they are usually called, may consist of a light-weight metal ball, cylinder, disk, or wheel structure. this should be added to the capacitance of the whip above the loading coil in determining the approximate inductance of the loading coil.
When center loading is used, the amount of capacitance to be added to permit the use of the same loading inductance required for base loading is not great, and should be seriously considered, since the total gain made by moving the coil to the center of the antenna may be quite marked."

I wouldnt be surprised to find out that MrCoily read the same section that i quoted and is basing his claims off of the facts that i presented.

in that sense, he has made a center loaded antenna that attempts to lessen the losses inherent in a loaded antenna to the greatest extent possible.

while that is a worthwhile endeavor, it will not ever equal or surpass the pure radiation resistance and efficiency provided by a full sized 1/4 wave radiator.

the thing is, he knows that as soon as he admits this, his sales begin to drop.
LC

PS- have you read my first post to you enough to decipher the joke?
i bet you cant!

 

[High Voltage Mobile NJ]

I was asking YOU to tell us how YOU know this to be true, which you have yet to even attempt. You have given us nothing but an obvious example of how deeply entrenched these bogus beliefs are. There are pages and pages of technical discussion in this thread that explain the how and why of what cap hats do and don't do. Apparently you decided not to read any of it and simply label those that disagree as "ignornat". LOL. Oh the irony...

because i have had an antron 99 1/2 antenna , and an astroplane antenna 1/4 and the astroplane was shorter in length but had more foward GAIN, so thats why a TOP HAT WILL WIN ALL THE TIME > . tx you high voltage


top hats here further has a 3 db more gain overall , compared to a stick antenna, what more proof do u need , because you just got learned son. go call up MARCONI and he will tell ya i told ya so ok , peace brother, go back to the bench and do real world tests, tx so much son .


i love the way you guys read out of a text book and forget the real important ones, some of ya guys are not even hams !! and if you are shame on you , u have not done the tests .

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

top hats here further has a 3 db more gain overall , compared to a stick antenna,

a 5/8 wgp has a little more than 1 db of gain over a 1/4wgp . how can shortening a 1/4 wave antenna and adding a top hat give it more gain than a 5/8wgp ?


The Ultimate Guide to 11 Meter CB Antennas

 

[Shockwave]

I hope nobody here is really thinking adding a cap hat is going to add any db's or that an Astro Plane has 5 or 7 db. Almost as good as the 9.61 dbi a fiberglass stick once claimed. Some people need to get all their ducks in a row before they start giving advice that is incorrect.

 

[High Voltage Mobile NJ]

a 5/8 wgp has a little more than 1 db of gain over a 1/4wgp . how can shortening a 1/4 wave antenna and adding a top hat give it more gain than a 5/8wgp ?


The Ultimate Guide to 11 Meter CB Antennas

booty you are so wrong it stinks so bad, lol

a 5/8 wave maco has at least 3.5 db gain over an antron , therefore has a 4.5 plus gain over a 1/4 wave.


its like having a 200 watt amplifier on with the 5/8 wave compared to the 1/4 wave. stop reading and transmitting bullshit guys , to many flakes on here. lo l llo llol

 

[Shockwave]

booty you are so wrong it stinks so bad, lol

a 5/8 wave maco has at least 3.5 db gain over an antron , therefore has a 4.5 plus gain over a 1/4 wave.


its like having a 200 watt amplifier on with the 5/8 wave compared to the 1/4 wave. stop reading and transmitting bullshit guys , to many flakes on here. lo l llo llol

Absolutely false information. An Antron 99 is a half wave end fed and cannot have any more gain then a 1/2 wave dipole at unity gain ( 0 db ). The 5/8 wave ground plane comes in at 1.2 db over a dipole. Not even close to 4.5 db. Please get your learn on before trying to teach others. Also, going from "barefoot" to 200 watts is more then a 15 db increase.

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

booty you are so wrong it stinks so bad, lol

a 5/8 wave maco has at least 3.5 db gain over an antron , therefore has a 4.5 plus gain over a 1/4 wave.


its like having a 200 watt amplifier on with the 5/8 wave compared to the 1/4 wave. stop reading and transmitting bullshit guys , to many flakes on here. lo l llo llol

wow !!!


sooooooooooooooooo..........................
how big does a top hat need to be on a 5/8 wgp or a sigma 4 to give it the additional 3db of gain you say top hats add to antennas ?

 

[Happy_Hamer]

Good debate going on, just keep it on track and the comments tactful

tactful - having or showing a sense of what is fitting and considerate in dealing with others

tactful - showing skill and sensitivity in dealing with people

tactful - definition of tactful by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

 

[psycho]

I just stumbled up the NEW title holder for snake-oil...this frankentenna called the Immortal by 55:

It just keeps getting better and better....LMAO

Is that a doctored photo? The mount is a joke and what it's is mounted to is even funnier.
Even if that thing had 100 db gain I would be too embarrassed driving around with that on it.