Fm vs Am

[weatherman49]

C2

the object was to find a way to stay in our own yard via fm mode on the allocated 40 I don't want to pull or smell anyone elses roses I just want some more of my own

 

[C2]

LOL, the only way to get more of your own roses is to get more land.

 

[Moleculo]

I hear what weatherman is saying...

It's near impossible in a city to talk more than a couple miles with a legal CB setup. I have a ticket and have tried to get others in the family to get a tech ticket forever to solve the exact problem weatherman is talking about. Noone has the interest. SSB works, but how many of you have tried to explain to your wife how to clarify in a station? I'll bet 90% of you that have tried gave up. Good grief...it took me 10 minutes last night to explain how to use the Tivo remote control, and we've had it for 2 years!

FRS is a joke, but GMRS is a better alternative if there are repeaters in the area. Cell phones are fine in the city most of the time, but that presents a whole new set of problems. They're certainly no use in a spot where you don't have coverage. I wish there was a band around 2 meters that you could use with a reasonable power level (25-50 watts?). MURS is the right idea, but the power level is too low.

 

[C2]

SSB works, but how many of you have tried to explain to your wife how to clarify in a station? I'll bet 90% of you that have tried gave up. Good grief...it took me 10 minutes last night to explain how to use the Tivo remote control, and we've had it for 2 years!

LMFAO!!!

All this time you thought you were explaining SSB and what was really going on was that she was explaining Cingular/Verison LOL!!!

Don't forget the Milk on the way home

 

[N8YX]

SSB works, but how many of you have tried to explain to your wife how to clarify in a station?

Mine can do it quite well - despite the fact that she's blonde.

In fact, she's currently studying for the General...

FRS is a joke, but GMRS is a better alternative if there are repeaters in the area.

Agreed. Let me add, IF you can keep the neighborhood kids off the darned things...they're not "play walkie-talkies', contrary to what many people happen to believe.

Cell phones are fine in the city most of the time, but that presents a whole new set of problems. They're certainly no use in a spot where you don't have coverage.

True.

I wish there was a band around 2 meters that you could use with a reasonable power level (25-50 watts?). MURS is the right idea, but the power level is too low.

Don't look for this to happen any time soon - as long as public safety and similar concerns still utilize the VHF spectrum. They have enough trouble with the occasional rogue ham crackpot and do not want the headaches which would result from the creation of a new service near their allocations.

 

[weatherman49]

Now we are getting somewhere! Some see the delemon! All I was getting at is this we all know the probplem Cb Ops run out of band to get away from the crap Hams don't like there roses pissed on ond for the most part (at least the Ops I know) we don't like pissing on them (Thorns HURT)! Istead of everybody getting mad and shutting conversation off with statements like STAY IN YOUR YARD CHICKEN BANDER! :x we should work together to find a reasonable solution that would be to everyones benifit!

I have no idea what this solution might be but with all the intelagence and problem solving capabilities we have compiled here on this forum we should be able to come up with something!!

 

[C W Morse]

The "rub" comes in when people start showing up without license on the Amateur bands, and I don't think it is totally unexpected that the hams would get a bit huffy about that! No different than if *I* (or anyone else) came in your yard and started pulling up your prized roses!

73

CWM

CWM, just be honest here...you know it is different, right?

It would be more like if someone came into your yard and smelled your roses, not actually pull them up. You see, while they were smelling your roses, you would be deprived of their smell because they would be in your way and also be sucking up the scent. But as soon as they moseyed on, you would once again have full enjoyment of your roses.

Now, would you truely be as offended by someone merely smelling your roses as they passed by your home?

No, it is not "different". The situation is that just as you have a reasonable expectation that your car will be there when you want it to be there. Now, if it would be "ok" for someone to "borrow" that car without your permission, you would still not like that. After all, you aren't "using" it, right? So why wouldn't it be OK for someone else to use your car while you are asleep? And, btw, the "smeller" has no business BEING in my yard sniffing ANYTHING in the first place; it's called T R E S PA S S I N G! The same legal principle is at work with radio in that, just as an owner of a tangible object (car) expects that he may exercize control of that object when he sees fit, a licensee of a radio station has a legal and verified right to exercize a privilege at the time and place of his choosing free of interference, interruption, or hindrance from those who have no authorization to use said frequencies. Licensees must share said frequencies in accordance with the rules. They have no reason to expect intruders to have any privileges regardless of how many excuses they make in order to justify their presence. Again it is the legal equivilent of trespassing where you have business. "Smelling" roses would be the equivilent of just tuning in and listening, not plucking them or transmitting on a frequency you are not licensed for.

The concept is simple, really. The CB band has 40 distinct, channelized frequencies with 4 watts of power. That is legally and rightfully the way it is, and should be! For those who want more that than, then they should be willing to do that which is required to obtain those privileges. But, there is a genre that insists that they are entitled to more, more, more, and it should be given to them without no regard to the consequencies of their actions. I don't agree. If something is worth having, it is worth doing SOMETHING to obtain it. There's where the irritation of hams is, I think, towards the "I've got a right to them channels because (you fill in the blanks)......" If we REALLY had all the "rights" we think we have, we'd have people driving 110 on the interstate, pulling up those flowers we were using as metaphor. It's called the Rule of Law that makes society function. With out that rule of law, society would crumble, and if people were allowed to just yap their trap anywhere *they* think they have a "right", or "excuse" or "reason" according to their own opinion, then radio would be useless.

 

[thetnhillbilly]

Well CWM, you finally admitted, in a round about way, that it is not like them pulling up your roses (destruction of property) it is more like trespassing. Or as you put it T R E S P A S S I N G. You are still not making a fair comparison, though. Someone taking my car while I'm asleep, come on. I shouldn't have to go into the lack of similarities for you, so I won't. Instead I'll let your illogical rant speak for itself.

I would like to say that people do drive 110 on the interstate and pick flowers. I'm suprised to say that where I live the rule of law says the speed limit on the interstate is 55, but some lawbreakers drive 60! Can you believe that? People breaking the law. I've even seen some jay walkers too! What you seem to fail to grasp is that certain laws have great severity and other less severity. You imply that destruction of property, trespassing, and now theft all share the same severity, and that just isn't so. You show time and time again that you don't understand what "legal equivelant" is.

Next time you try to make a comparison here I suggest you not compare radio frequencies to a tangible object. You might own you car or own your roses, but you do not own the freq. You have earned a privelege to speak there if you follow the rules. Mabey you can make your point if you compare it to use of the road. I have a driver's licence, therefore I have earned the privelege to drive on the road so long as I follow the rules. If I break certain rules of the road (and get caught) I may get a fine or I may lose my privelege to drive, depending on the severity of my offense. Some people drive without earning a license and if they are caught they are punished accordingly. I don't say that this is my road and I can use it whenever and however I choose and if one of those jerks who didn't earn a license is out there on my road I'll just run him over and he may as well have stolen my car as to drive on my road.

So there! I can rant and show what a rear-end I am too. I apologize for my spelling, my not so smart as some and stuff. Putting the letters together to make words is hard.

 

[C W Morse]

You have earned a privelege to speak there if you follow the rules. Mabey you can make your point if you compare it to use of the road. I have a driver's licence, therefore I have earned the privelege to drive on the road so long as I follow the rules. If I break certain rules of the road (and get caught) I may get a fine. (quote)

The use of metaphor is common in all debate. And we can debate this point, attack each other, imply what a "rear end" each other is until the gates of Hades freeze shut. It is also a common outlet for frustrations we wouldn't otherwise voice to another's face, so we argue, and argue, and argue. No "wins", no one "loses".

The crux of the matter is in this thread (which actually ought to be in FCC/legal matters). 1) CB ops have 40 channels, and 4 watts and must use FCC-certified equipment. 2)Amateurs may use a variety of equipment (within certain limitations applicable to their own service), a wide selection of bands and frequencies, and participate in almost limitless radio-related activities confined only to those rules in Part 97. In order to obtain those privileges, they must take and pass, at least, a minimum level of knowlege of Part 97, the privileges that apply to each level of license, frequencies, and RF theory. Each level increases in difficulty up to the Extra class license. 3) CBers may NOT transmit anywhere outside of those 40 channels, and hams must remain within their frequencies and abide by the rules that apply to them. Hams may NOT come over to 11 Meters, harass, bother, gloat, use their ham callsigns, or use ham transceivers on 27 MHZ. Yes, they can USE CB, engage in CB so long as they abide by the SAME rules that apply there.
If anyone violates Title 47, US Code by transmitting without license (and, BTW, CB is "licensed" under FCC blanket authorization--see Part 95), he is subject to whatever penalty applies to the offense. THAT, in spite of insults, digs, put-downs, dislike, or the way one wants things, is the way it is. We can sit here and criticize metaphors forever and it doesnt' change one dadgum thing! It is what it is, and no amount of rationalization of the rules according to Joe CBer, or Bobby Ham is going to change that.

And I think this should end this thread. It never should have deteriotated into another debate on CB vs Ham. Facts is facts no matter how we obfuscate.

CWM

 

[weatherman49]

alright hilbilly point made but lets not get nasty! I agree with your comparisons no one owns the frequencies as no one owns the road but we still have to share them I'm just trying to make the road I choose to drive on a little smoother nothing wrong with that is there CW? would you rather drive on a road full of potholes or a freshly paved smooth riding one?

CW you are correct the point was not to start a debate but rather look for ways to inprove our hobbies for both hams and cb ops! Hams have the use of many different modes and frequency plans but cb is restricted my main point was to see if fm were a viable mode on 11m to give cb ops a little more room!

(RE-pave the road so to speak)

 

[N8YX]

main point was to see if fm were a viable mode on 11m to give cb ops a little more room!

(RE-pave the road so to speak)

'Getting more room' implies expanding the allocation and not adding another mode to the mix.

You'll find that - for the same carrier power, frequency of operation, etc - AM is better than FM for 'fringe-area' communications...and SSB is better than both.


The FCC might be inclined to increase the available Class D allocation if

A) Usage figures showed there to be enough of a demand for an expansion;

B) Current users of the service would refrain from out-of-band operation, running excessive power or both;

C) Users of nearby spectrum migrate their operations elsewhere;

D) Any foreign governments that have licensees which operate in the proposed expansion reason are agreeable to it.


I don't know what the CB scene in other parts of the country is like - but in my area it's utter deadsville. One local channel besides 19 - that's it. Yet there are at least two 'freeband' nets in operation between 27.405 and 28.0; I'm almost certain that one of the groups has a few hams in its ranks. There is no valid reason for those folks to be operating where they are, as band overcrowding simply isn't an issue.

 

[C W Morse]

alright hilbilly point made but lets not get nasty! I agree with your comparisons no one owns the frequencies as no one owns the road but we still have to share them I'm just trying to make the road I choose to drive on a little smoother nothing wrong with that is there CW? would you rather drive on a road full of potholes or a freshly paved smooth riding one?

CW you are correct the point was not to start a debate but rather look for ways to inprove our hobbies for both hams and cb ops! Hams have the use of many different modes and frequency plans but cb is restricted my main point was to see if fm were a viable mode on 11m to give cb ops a little more room!

(RE-pave the road so to speak)

The thing is, FM is not the way to give more room on 11 Meters. It takes up far more "elbow room" than does Sideband for example. If anything, it would make it worse. Single Sideband is the most efficient mode available to CB right now. Unfortunately, there is just not much way to improve CB on 27 MHZ. Technically, it has run its course. My main point, and not meaning to be harsh, is that all those things folks want for 27 MHZ CB is already there in the Amateur ticket. If you want HF FM, then there is 29.600 thru 29.690 (staying away from band edges). For other ventures into FM, there's 6 Meters, 2 Meters, 440 MHZ and above.

73

CWM

 

[N8YX]

What I don't understand is why is there such a NEED for freebanding, makes you feel special? I dunno, but I DO know around here the only CB channels utilized is 6,18,19,28,and 35, there is 34 channels not used! :?

In my immediate vicinity the only channels used are 6 ( the 'Bowl, of course...), 13 (towards the Canton area), 17 (greater Akron area) and 19. Occasionally, a group will wander off one of the busy channels and use 14, but that's it. Not an SSBer in sight on the regular 40 although there are two 'freeband' SSB nets operating in the Akron area (on 27.440 LSB and 27.805 LSB).

I can partially see a need for extra room in a highly congested allocation but these two operations carry on even if all 40 channels are as dead as the proverbial doornail. There's seemingly no justification for such activity, other than the individuals laying claim to something they feel is "their private frequency".

 

[weatherman49]

I never said there was a need for freebanding I stated I did not like to do it but had few alternatives that was the piont of the thread to find alternatives!

I could go on to say that just because your area was not congested on the allocated 40 doesn't mean mine isn't I could also go on to say that down here nobody uses the 10 meter band!

N8 Go down I75 to the south around Cinci and you will understand the problem Total caos!

Now with that said I'm done with the thread because my initial piont was trying to make life better for both groups! Some of you Helped and had great Ideas And I thank you dearly! The rest of you wanted to turn it back into the great debate again and that was not the purpose of the thread!

 

[weatherman49]

I said I was done but here is the exact point I'm gettin at look in the Announcements & Genereal discussions under the heading 667

Later