Francis 8' Wheeler Dealer Antenna

[Marconi]

I am working today Eddie.
But I will try to get some measurements for you.
On the one that I snapped off it was very easy to see the 3 wires attached to the base connector.
This antenna has copper wire, as I recall it looked to be about 14 gauge.
It was still connected to the base and the 3 wires were still holding it attached.
I MIGHT still have that broken antenna around here somewhere, as I don't rember if I hauled it off to the landfill.
Will try to find it because it clearly shows the 3 copper wires at the base.

73
Jeff

When you get the time Jeff.

Here is an image of my current model using a guesstimate for wire diameters and their spacing. I used 0.03125" inches for the wire diameters on #2,#3,#4, the radiator. That is close to being 20g wire.

I used 0.13233" inches for the spaces between these wires.

I figure the overall diameter for the bottom of the FG radiator at the ferrule is 5/8" to 13/16" inches overall diameter. I'm guessing the FG tip is close to <>1/4" inch in diameter.

If you find the remnants of your broken Francis...maybe you could consider to try cutting the wire, and see if I'm right about it being a stainless steel wire and maybe with a copper coating.

Thanks for you help.

 

[2NC995]

Procomm Quad Rod ...(4) 1/4 wave elements. Good reports.

I’d imagine this antenna is very similar to the Van Ordt.

 

[2NC995]

Francis Hot Rod also advertised as multiple (2) 1/4 wave elements.

 

[AudioShockwav]

Eddie.
The total length is 96 inches from the end of the 3/8 24 mounting threads to the top tip of the antenna with the little red cover removed.
The chrome plated brass at the base is 2 1/4 inches long.
The Dia just above the brass base is 23/64 of a inch.
The Dia at the tip is 15/64 of a inch.
As of now I have not found the broken antenna.

73
Jeff

 

[AudioShockwav]

I can see no exposed wire at the tip of the antenna and trying as hard as I can I find no exposed wire any were on the outside taper.
I shall continue to look for the broken antenna but I really don't know were I put it at this time.
I may have hauled it off but I will keep looking.

73
Jeff

 

[2NC995]

Eddie.
The total length is 96 inches....

I’m thinking that’s about the length of a regular 1/4 wave fiberglass whip. I know they run shorter than stainless.

And yes, I realize that this isn’t a loaded antenna...just pondering the many comments that say it performs almost as well as a 1/4 wave whip.

 

[Marconi]

Eddie.
The total length is 96 inches from the end of the 3/8 24 mounting threads to the top tip of the antenna with the little red cover removed.
The chrome plated brass at the base is 2 1/4 inches long.
The Dia just above the brass base is 23/64 of a inch.
The Dia at the tip is 15/64 of a inch.
As of now I have not found the broken antenna.

73
Jeff

Thanks so much Jeff.

I set the wires as close together as I could without the model crashing.

Here are my models comparing the Francis Wheeler Dealer idea to a 102" whip with both on top of the same Starduster type ground plane with 3 slanted down radials. The feed points are set at 87" inches above the ground.

Model
1. is the 102" inch whip. The bandwidth is <2.00:1 = 4.00 MHz

3. Overlays of the patterns for the two models. The (*) denotes the active model.

3. is the Francis with the 3 radiator wires set closer together. The bandwidth is <2:00:1 =4.30 MHz. As a result of Jeff's new dimensions, the irregular currents (Red Lines) noted in the RF pattern for the Francis, started when I set the wires closer together using a 1.75 to 1 ratio instead of the previous 4 to 1 ratio. We also see the irregular effects in the SWR report. IMO, this compression effect we see in the currents also causes the added bandwidth.

* IMO and from a modeling perspective, this design is very sensitive to the dimensions, and maybe in part this helps explain why the antenna is not still being made as it was originally produced by the Francis family...and we can't get them anymore.

 

[Marconi]

I’m thinking that’s about the length of a regular 1/4 wave fiberglass whip. I know they run shorter than stainless.

And yes, I realize that this isn’t a loaded antenna...just pondering the many comments that say it performs almost as well as a 1/4 wave whip.

Good idea. My FG model here does not consider the effects of insulation or randome type effects on the wire elements. I might try adding that if I can figure out the FG insulation details.

 

[2NC995]

I’m stuck on this model. Lol. I expected to see something different about the radiation pattern, for good or for bad, but for all practical purposes they’re identical. And the SWR curve is just ugly.

 

[Marconi]

I’m stuck on this model. Lol. I expected to see something different about the radiation pattern, for good or for bad, but for all practical purposes they’re identical. And the SWR curve is just ugly.

Below is another PDF file of a recent model I made of the Francis with the space to wire ratio set at 4.23:1. It was set where the wires were much wider apart. Here we see the model is pretty, like you would expect, but it doesn't perform like we've heard it should...compared to a good ole' 102" ss whip.

I wasn't happy with this wild look either and then I remembered the old saying down around Schulenberg, Texas, were a sign hangs going both ways and saying,

"Our sausage is reallyyyy good, but you don't want'a watch it being made."​

 

[Slowmover]

Procomm Quad Rod ...(4) 1/4 wave elements. Good reports.

I’d imagine this antenna is very similar to the Van Ordt.

View attachment 31651

And a nice antenna is the PRO COMM QUAD ROD. (4.5’ length only)

Had a pair on the mirror arms of a KW tanker (clearance an issue) a few years ago. Distinctly heavier than you’d imagine. Had Robert at Clays Radio Shop set them up with a Rig Expert.

 

[Marconi]

dledinger

Thanks for your ad links...showing us there is still an interest in the Francis multi-element wire construction ideas out there in CB land.

 

[2NC995]

This is what’s on my roof right now...8 and half feet of copper pipe.

The band is pretty dead, but made a contact with 6RC666 in Columbia as soon as I screwed it on.

As always though, if there’s something better I can thread on there (or maybe even drive around with) I want to know!

I’m still super intrigued about multi-wire designs. There’s something to it, and I haven’t been able to wrap my head around it!

 

[unit_399]

... I realize that this isn’t a loaded antenna...just pondering the many comments that say it performs almost as well as a 1/4 wave whip.

The Steel whip antenna is the best performer because it has the largest DIAMETER and the greatest radiating area. Since RF radiates from the skin of the wire element, the larger the diameter, the more radiating area for a given length. A fiberglass whip with a single wire inside will radiate less RF because the diameter of the wire is smaller. The Amazer and Wheeler Dealer perform ALMOST as well as the steel whip because their radiating area is 3 times that of a glass antenna with one wire. Another benefit of a fiberglass whip is that with the wires encapsulated in the resin, they won't corrode and have more stable performance. Also, they don't bend as easily as a steel whip, and have better performance at speed on the road. But that being said, the steel whip is hands down the best performing mobile antenna.

- 399

 

[Marconi]

Jeff, what color is your Francis?