HF'S ON AM

[Stellasstillarat]

Thanks gary. like most ticket holders wheather they'll admit it or not (and most won't ) can't resist the erage to pop up on 11 meters. IT shocks me how many I hear from 27.366-27.695 lsb/usb.. I'm not sure why. Maybe when conditions are scarce on the amateur bands but whatever the reason there there in droves

I've been told my icom 746 sounds really good and like me. I haved used it for 11m AM dx a couple times and got good responses back. Clean clear audio. I don't run my my mic gain or rf power all the way open either. 8-10 is as far as I go. I use the stock hm-12 mic with it.

.it's to there advantage keeping it on the DL. It's not like there on there 40 channel 4 watt cobra's. On the contrary there often not only using there general coverage tx/rx hf's at 100 watts but using that 100 watts to drive there nicely built 500-1500 watt "amature amplifiers. Everyone knows this is not only a breach of a ham operators code (something like the old Ivey league hand shake) but totally against the law. I'd guess out of all the 11 meter stations I hear on any given day 25% of those operates are ticket holders another 70% are chicken banders like myself who are "freedanding" with a minimum of 200 watts the other 5% are newbies who haven't gotten around to knowing if thay want to be heard and enjoy making contacts there gonna have to up there game. Which they inevitably do. Some ticket holders don't even hide the fact there licensed and often freely give out there operating conditions. There's obviously a reson this is happening and since I don't moneriting ham bands i dont know what drives so many ticket holders to do this but i enjoy AM local rag chew and "may" resort to using an hf on 11 before I get my ticket and most likely after. I was just hopeing to get a ham transceiver that will allow me to switch between ssb and AM. It's much easier the going back and forth between radio's. I don't even do it with my tube plate modulated radios much. Unless there's no skip and I'm exclusivly gonna be qsoing with locals who don't operate ssb. I stopped at your post and will read on. Thanks again Gary. It's people like yourself who've been a tremendous help. Happy DX'ING.

Well, not to burst the bubble before you start but in the US a Tech. class has only one location I know of where you may operate Ancient Modulation and that is 6 meters on 50.400. and activity is almost non-existent.
The Tech class is Not allowed to operate AM mode on 10m only SSB and CW.
The General and Extra class has a few more options.
However 99.9% of all Amateur Radio "Voice" operations Worldwide on HF use SSB.
There are a few specific locations (frequencies) where AM is operated on HF, but the space for accepted operation is limited, and is frowned on anywhere else.
The AM vs. SSB war was fought and lost on HF over 50 yrs ago, and SSB won.
Sorry but that's the facts!
The most avid AM operators will tell you, that it's a losing proposition to try and operate outside of those specific "windows" where AM operation is considered acceptable.
All the Best
Gary

operating on 11 also. This is my main reson for hopefully finding an hf that will sound nice on AM. I would often switch from my madison on ssb to a plate modulated cb but switching back and forth three or four times in an hour has become a bother. So now I just switch the mode selector on my Madison. I've found that although my sonar or Robyn sounds much nicer on AM than the madison the Madison accually sound exstramly nice on AM and rarely switch radios any more and this is the reson I want an hf that can be switched from ssb to AM and sound good. Otherwise im gonna spend $2000+ on an hf and a real amp as I'm not gonna use an 11 meter amp in line with a yaesu icom or whichever rig I finally wind up with. It actually seems like most 11 meter ssb operaters who aren't ticket holders are using hf's anyway. QUOTE="BJ radionut, post: 519250, member: 7026"]Well, not to burst the bubble before you start but in the US a Tech. class has only one location I know of where you may operate Ancient Modulation and that is 6 meters on 50.400. and activity is almost non-existent.
The Tech class is Not allowed to operate AM mode on 10m only SSB and CW.
The General and Extra class has a few more options.
However 99.9% of all Amateur Radio "Voice" operations Worldwide on HF use SSB.
There are a few specific locations (frequencies) where AM is operated on HF, but the space for accepted operation is limited, and is frowned on anywhere else.
The AM vs. SSB war was fought and lost on HF over 50 yrs ago, and SSB won.
Sorry but that's the facts!
The most avid AM operators will tell you, that it's a losing proposition to try and operate outside of those specific "windows" where AM operation is considered acceptable.
All the Best
Gary[/QUOTE]

Well, not to burst the bubble before you start but in the US a Tech. class has only one location I know of where you may operate Ancient Modulation and that is 6 meters on 50.400. and activity is almost non-existent.
The Tech class is Not allowed to operate AM mode on 10m only SSB and CW.
The General and Extra class has a few more options.
However 99.9% of all Amateur Radio "Voice" operations Worldwide on HF use SSB.
There are a few specific locations (frequencies) where AM is operated on HF, but the space for accepted operation is limited, and is frowned on anywhere else.
The AM vs. SSB war was fought and lost on HF over 50 yrs ago, and SSB won.
Sorry but that's the facts!
The most avid AM operators will tell you, that it's a losing proposition to try and operate outside of those specific "windows" where AM operation is considered acceptable.
All the Best
Gary

Well, not to burst the bubble before you start but in the US a Tech. class has only one location I know of where you may operate Ancient Modulation and that is 6 meters on 50.400. and activity is almost non-existent.
The Tech class is Not allowed to operate AM mode on 10m only SSB and CW.
The General and Extra class has a few more options.
However 99.9% of all Amateur Radio "Voice" operations Worldwide on HF use SSB.
There are a few specific locations (frequencies) where AM is operated on HF, but the space for accepted operation is limited, and is frowned on anywhere else.
The AM vs. SSB war was fought and lost on HF over 50 yrs ago, and SSB won.
Sorry but that's the facts!
The most avid AM operators will tell you, that it's a losing proposition to try and operate outside of those specific "windows" where AM operation is considered acceptable.
All the Best
Gary

Well, not to burst the bubble before you start but in the US a Tech. class has only one location I know of where you may operate Ancient Modulation and that is 6 meters on 50.400. and

Well, not to burst the bubble before you start but in the US a Tech. class has only one location I know of where you may operate Ancient Modulation and that is 6 meters on 50.400. and activity is almost non-existent.
The Tech class is Not allowed to operate AM mode on 10m only SSB and CW.
The General and Extra class has a few more options.
However 99.9% of all Amateur Radio "Voice" operations Worldwide on HF use SSB.

There are a few specific locations (frequencies) where AM is operated on HF, but the space for accepted operation is limited, and is frowned on anywhere else.
The AM vs. SSB war was fought and lost on HF over 50 yrs ago, and SSB won.
Sorry but that's the facts!
The most avid AM operators will tell you, that it's a losing proposition to try and operate outside of those specific "windows" where AM operation is considered acceptable.
All the Best
Gary

activity is almost non-existent.
The Tech class is Not allowed to operate AM mode on 10m only SSB and CW.
The General and Extra class has a few more options.
However 99.9% of all Amateur Radio "Voice" operations Worldwide on HF use SSB.
There are a few specific locations (frequencies) where AM is operated on HF, but the space for accepted operation is limited, and is frowned on anywhere else.
The AM vs. SSB war was fought and lost on HF over 50 yrs ago, and SSB won.
Sorry but that's the facts!
The most avid AM operators will tell you, that it's a losing proposition to try and operate outside of those specific "windows" where AM operation is considered acceptable.
All the Best
Gary

I just went blind reading this thread.

Well, not to burst the bubble before you start but in the US a Tech. class has only one location I know of where you may operate Ancient Modulation and that is 6 meters on 50.400. and activity is almost non-existent.
The Tech class is Not allowed to operate AM mode on 10m only SSB and CW.
The General and Extra class has a few more options.
However 99.9% of all Amateur Radio "Voice" operations Worldwide on HF use SSB.
There are a few specific locations (frequencies) where AM is operated on HF, but the space for accepted operation is limited, and is frowned on anywhere else.
The AM vs. SSB war was fought and lost on HF over 50 yrs ago, and SSB won.
Sorry but that's the facts!
The most avid AM operators will tell you, that it's a losing proposition to try and operate outside of those specific "windows" where AM operation is considered acceptable.
All the Best
Gary

Well, not to burst the bubble before you start but in the US a Tech. class has only one location I know of where you may operate Ancient Modulation and that is 6 meters on 50.400. and activity is almost non-existent.
The Tech class is Not allowed to operate AM mode on 10m only SSB and CW.
The General and Extra class has a few more options.
However 99.9% of all Amateur Radio "Voice" operations Worldwide on HF use SSB.
There are a few specific locations (frequencies) where AM is operated on HF, but the space for accepted operation is limited, and is frowned on anywhere else.
The AM vs. SSB war was fought and lost on HF over 50 yrs ago, and SSB won.
Sorry but that's the facts!
The most avid AM operators will tell you, that it's a losing proposition to try and operate outside of those specific "windows" where AM operation is considered acceptable.
All the Best
Gary

 

[Stellasstillarat]

Blind? The nun's in elementary school told me that only happens from masturbating. I'm not even gonna ask cause I don't want to know.

I just went blind reading this thread.

 

[Stellasstillarat]

I absolutely appreciate everyone's replyes but I'm so glad that you (Captain) weighted in. Most of the time your answers are to the point and easily understood by the bottom shelf newbie ie me. One of the modifications mentioned by a post I read online written by a ham operator said adding a variable output control to the back of his icom 761 alowed him to drop the output to 15 watts or lower while on AM. This allowed for excellent audio while operating AM. There were one or two more mods besides the variable needed to obtain this wonderful Am audio from his 761. I did save the post and try too share it here. Great information. Once again thanks.

There is a LOT of misunderstanding as to the operation of an HF radio on AM. First off ALL AM transmitters insert a carrier. That is what AM is.....a modulated carrier. Operation of an HF radio is quite different than a CB radio. On CB power levels are changed when you flip the mode switch from 4 watts on AM to 12 watts on SSB. With an HF radio the power is continuously variable on ALL modes and the operator is responsible for operating it correctly. Also most CB'ers and some hams do not understand that the typical 100 watt HF radio is in fact putting out 100 watts when the AM carrier is set to 25 watts because a properly modulated AM carrier of 25 watts will peak to 100 watts. Try and squeeze any more out of it and it will sound like crap and be undermodulated due to ALC compression. Most of the crappy AM performance of HF radios is due to improper and most likely uninformed operation. The last thing is that most CB'ers are so used to LOUD!! audio that they do not fully understand what NORMAL AM actually sounds like. Modern HF radios can be made to sound quite reasonable on AM if the operator is aware of the requirements of what it takes to do so.

 

[222DBFL]

There are certain HF radios that don't sound bad on AM. The kenwood HX480's sound good on AM. I have been told by many that my icom 746 sounds great on AM. Had a guy even ask me to make sure I didnt change radios as he too thought HF radios weren't supposed to sound good on AM. Maybe luck of the draw, or proper setup of mic gain, compression, and not having the rf power all the way up helped. Not sure. Maybe I'm lucky and got a good radio.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

I absolutely appreciate everyone's replyes but I'm so glad that you (Captain) weighted in. Most of the time your answers are to the point and easily understood by the bottom shelf newbie ie me. One of the modifications mentioned by a post I read online written by a ham operator said adding a variable output control to the back of his icom 761 alowed him to drop the output to 15 watts or lower while on AM. This allowed for excellent audio while operating AM. There were one or two more mods besides the variable needed to obtain this wonderful Am audio from his 761. I did save the post and try too share it here. Great information. Once again thanks.

All that mod was doing was adding an external ALC voltage to limit the carrier power. The RF Power adjustment knob on the radio does the same thing however some times an external multi-turn pot controlling the ALC can be easier to finely adjust. Some radios also have a 100 watt output spike upon keying up which quickly drops to the proper level. this can severely over drive some amps and using a fixed external ALC voltage like in that mod is supposed to cure that issue.

 

[Stellasstillarat]

Once again I'm am impressed with your knowledge. There was one more thing this 761 owner did to get "tube sounding audio". I'm adding the original online posting. I hope you and everyone interested will be able to click on and it will show up. Captain. Should the mods mentioned in the added posting

There are certain HF radios that don't sound bad on AM. The kenwood HX480's sound good on AM. I have been told by many that my icom 746 sounds great on AM. Had a guy even ask me to make sure I didnt change radios as he too thought HF radios weren't supposed to sound good on AM. Maybe luck of the draw, or proper setup of mic gain, compression, and not having the rf power all the way up helped. Not sure. Maybe I'm lucky and got a good radio.

All that mod was doing was adding an external ALC voltage to limit the carrier power. The RF Power adjustment knob on the radio does the same thing however some times an external multi-turn pot controlling the ALC can be easier to finely adjust. Some radios also have a 100 watt output spike upon keying up which quickly drops to the proper level. this can severely over drive some amps and using a fixed external ALC voltage like in that mod is supposed to cure that issue.

 

[DainBramage]

.... like most ticket holders wheather they'll admit it or not (and most won't ) can't resist the erage to pop up on 11 meters.... Maybe when conditions are scarce on the amateur bands.... I'd guess out of all the 11 meter stations I hear on any given day 25% of those operates are ticket holders ... I don't moneriting ham bands i dont know...

well. for some one that doesn't even have a ticket, and never even "monerit" Amateur bands, you sure know a lot more than people that have

 

[tba02]

To back up 222DBFL, I know an Icom IC-736 gets good reports on AM as well. The mic gain is @ 50%, compression @~30-40% and the output wattage is kept to a minimum (usually ~ 4 swinging to 16 watts).

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

The Icom line tends to sound quite well with little or no compression on AM. Limit carrier power to NO MORE THAN 25 watts and keep the mike gain down. Some folks have inserted audio into the AUX jack on the back of the radio and thus bypass the microphone EQ limiting components and drive the balanced modulator directly. I did this when I had an ICOM 735 and the audio was great on AM.

 

[Stellasstillarat]

Captain. Once again your you are correct. There were a few other things the author did. I tried to share it from my drive but couldn't do it so this is what the operater did. Included relay to cut out AM filter on transmit. Addled a 10 turn precision pot to set carrier level and a switch to set the two if mosfets at a certain gain level on AM. This included cutting out the alc on AM. Two holes were drilled in the back of the radio one for the pot and the other for the switch. The relay was installed inside. Job was nice and neat..... This was done to an icom 761. The author went on to say that the modulation post mods sound like a tube type audio on AM. Captain. What's your analysis on those mods and do you think they would have that much of a profound difference on the AM audio? If it's something that would greatly improve the AM audio on an icom 761 are those modifications one's that can be performed on most any hf to greatly improve the AM audio? That's if in your opinion these mods would do what the author clames they did in the first place. Thanks again captain. QUOTE="222DBFL, post: 519358, member: 36544"]There are certain HF radios that don't sound bad on AM. The kenwood HX480's sound good on AM. I have been told by many that my icom 746 sounds great on AM. Had a guy even ask me to make sure I didnt change radios as he too thought HF radios weren't supposed to sound good on AM. Maybe luck of the draw, or proper setup of mic gain, compression, and not having the rf power all the way up helped. Not sure. Maybe I'm lucky and got a good radio.[/QUOTE]

All that mod was doing was adding an external ALC voltage to limit the carrier power. The RF Power adjustment knob on the radio does the same thing however some times an external multi-turn pot controlling the ALC can be easier to finely adjust. Some radios also have a 100 watt output spike upon keying up which quickly drops to the proper level. this can severely over drive some amps and using a fixed external ALC voltage like in that mod is supposed to cure that issue.

All that mod was doing was adding an external ALC voltage to limit the carrier power. The RF Power adjustment knob on the radio does the same thing however some times an external multi-turn pot controlling the ALC can be easier to finely adjust. Some radios also have a 100 watt output spike upon keying up which quickly drops to the proper level. this can severely over drive some amps and using a fixed external ALC voltage like in that mod is supposed to cure that issue.

All that mod was doing was adding an external ALC voltage to limit the carrier power. The RF Power adjustment knob on the radio does the same thing however some times an external multi-turn pot controlling the ALC can be easier to finely adjust. Some radios also have a 100 watt output spike upon keying up which quickly drops to the proper level. this can severely over drive some amps and using a fixed external ALC voltage like in that mod is supposed to cure that issue.

All that mod was doing was adding an external ALC voltage to limit the carrier power. The RF Power adjustment knob on the radio does the same thing however some times an external multi-turn pot controlling the ALC can be easier to finely adjust. Some radios also have a 100 watt output spike upon keying up which quickly drops to the proper level. this can severely over drive some amps and using a fixed external ALC voltage like in that mod is supposed to cure that issue.

 

[psycho]

Blind? The nun's in elementary school told me that only happens from masturbating. I'm not even gonna ask cause I don't want to know.

If that were true then there would be several billion seeing eye dogs on the job.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

I do not like the idea of disabling the ALC on AM, or any other mode for that matter. That will lead to splatter and while the operator will not hear it and he may get good audio reports he will be pissing off a lot of stations with his wideband splatter. THAT is the part I don't like about that mod done. As for setting the gain of the MOSFETS (whatever mosfets they are I do not know off hand) I suppose that is OK but it really does nothing except add convenience and it is OK IF the gains were set properly. Again....this is something that an operator should be able to do in about 3 seconds if he understands HOW to operate on AM. Just MHO of course.

 

[Mustang 131]

Do some research and you'll find your answers. Just google it. Heard some amazing sounding late model rigs on AM. You'll need to do some mods and have some sort of audio processing (clipping, compression). Of course a scope and real time audio receiver. You'll need to get your learn on, no short cuts with really good sounding audio. It keeps away 95% hams since most don't even own a soldering iron.
Heard a few flex's and apache SDR's on 11 that kick a$$. But even they need some sort of external processing.
AM - It's not for the appliance operator.

 

[Stellasstillarat]

I don't attempt any work. Even the smallest repairs are done by my friend Mike of Mike's radio repair in p.a. His knowlage and workmanship are top notch. Tube, transistorized, transceiver, transmittters, amps, receivers, hf's and everything in between. From the smallest to the largest work he can do it. Turn around is as fast as can be and his prices are fair. I'm not advertising for his sake as he doesn't need it. I'm hoping this information will help someone who's looking for s real tec and not a golden screwdriver. It took me seven months of looking before I found him and hope this information saves some the search time that may inevitably leed to a "tec" that know as little as the person who's looking to have a repair or modification done. Mikesradiorepair@gmail.com .... He repaired and moded 6 pices since. He also honest and has a pas for older tube equipment but his experience is unlimited in all areas or radio communications. I hope this helps someone who's been seaching. Thanks for your information.

Do some research and you'll find your answers. Just google it. Heard some amazing sounding late model rigs on AM. You'll need to do some mods and have some sort of audio processing (clipping, compression). Of course a scope and real time audio receiver. You'll need to get your learn on, no short cuts with really good sounding audio. It keeps away 95% hams since most don't even own a soldering iron.
Heard a few flex's and apache SDR's on 11 that kick a$$. But even they need some sort of external processing.
AM - It's not for the appliance operator.

 

[Stellasstillarat]

Tell that to the 1000 's of ticket holders and non holders using hf's on 11 meters. For the first three months on the air I operated AM only. I never heard one hf on AM. Now I know why (AM audio issue). Two months after that I switched between AM and ssb. For the past month and a half I spend 95% of my radio time on ssb and am astonished at the amount of hf's on air. I'm fairly sure hf's out number cb's by 2:1. I'm also shocked at how many stations on 11 meters are licensed ham operators. I remember a time when a chicken bander would get his novice license and you'd never hear him again on 11.What changed? From my time on the air 74-87 and from November until now I never listened to the amateur bands but something tells me ham radio isn't what it used to be. I suspect that most hay day hams are now sk's and most that have taken there place are baby boomers and gen X's that just don't have the appreciation for amature radio like the old timers do, atlest the one's that are still left. Sometimes progress doesn't mean advacment. The fact the fcc has made it much easier to obtain as ticket may mean the new hams just don't respect the fact that operating amateur radio's an earned privilege. The fact that a ham operater would kick back after turning on the radio / amp and light up a fat bowl of some sticky bud as opposed to lighting up a pipe filled with the operaters favorite flavored cherry pipe Tabacco isnt a slam on ham radio operators it's just an observation on cisiety itself. There no doubt in my mind that amateur radio isn't taken as a serious entitie in itself. I think most ham operators feel communicating using wireless equipment is a band in totality and if they choose to use the whole 11 meter band as part of of there operating choice who's there to stop them? The fact is no one. Who's gonna verbally abuse them when they go from 11 to 40 when the others on 40 can't cast the first stone as most are 11 meter sinners themselvs. The fcc has obviously more impoimportant issues. It seems to me that most chicken banders won't venture into the amateur bands as it's probably easy to be found out by ticket holders and I think the fcc's probubly does a better job keeping bootleggers off amateur bands and don't consider the visa versa but a harmless infraction. I in no way want anyone to think I'm bashing ham operators by implying there all pot smoking and layed back law breakers. Im just using modern amateur radio as a metaphore for modern cisiety. America is a very different place then it was 50 years ago. for that matter 20 years ago and amarure radios only one thing that may never be as it was then just as all humanity will never be what it was then. Just a thought I wanted to put out there. wheather I'm right or wrong or maybe somewhere in the middle I don't know. What I do know is that 26.035.- 27.995 is loaded with ticket holders and non holders using hf's. Happy DX'ING and enjoy the hobby. I definitely do.

A lot of money on equipment you can't legally use even on the chicken band.

Your Free to own as many radios as you wish, But don't transmit on Amateur bands without a license.