HY-GAIN SPT-500 or Tornado 27?

[The DB]

If I am offending you, I apologize. It isn't my intention. Just some friendly debate with a hint of sarcasm

Don't worry, you are not offending me in the slightest.

There was a quote that you responded to when the man said he had one antenna hooked up and couldn't hear his buddy and no response on is S meter. He changed antennas and could clearly hear his buddy and his S meter was reading 3. I'm not saying there was an 18db gain over the other antenna. How much gain was enough to take his buddy from not being heard, to being heard. That is enough gain make the difference between static and some rag chewing.

No argument there, but you don't need a s-meter to figure out there is a difference.

The gain to be able to hear someone is much less than you might think. I often talk to people that are in the static. They don't even register on the s-meter on the radio. This happens regularly.

I am just saying that the S meter, though in-accurate, still said "hey this antenna is pulling in more signal than that one."

Again, you can hear him with one antenna and you cannot with the other. Your ears are telling you as much as your s-meter at that point. I'm more interested in trying to figure out why that is.

The speaker comment was in jest. You have to admit it was kind of funny.

I figured. I really didn't expect you or anyone else who frequents these forums to actually believe that remark, that is why I responded to it as I did.


The DB

 

[The DB]

Why else then are all my signal reports so similar and showing hardly any difference among the antenna is have compared?

That is how it is meant to be. To go up from any s-unit to the next (well at least through s9) is supposed to require a 400% jump in received power. Even going from a 1/2 wave to an equivalent 5/8 wave antenna is much less of a difference than this.

I also ask, how the do most that see nice clear differences in signals using their radios...get such different results from their radio meters?

Well for one most s-meters are complete and utter crap. I have seen radios that talking from base to base with the same person over a few minutes will show wildly different results.

In some cases it is a matter of someone wanting something to be so, so intentionally or otherwise they skew the results. You would be surprised at how often someone skews results coming from a meter reading and doesn't even realize they are doing it. Never forget, rounding is very subjective, and you are rounding from a device that is inaccurate at best to begin with. All numbers recorded in this way will always be subjective. It is funny though how often people take this information and treat it as complete and indisputable fact.

If you guys are talking about SWR results, then "never mind."

Nope, not SWR results. S-meter readings.


The DB

 

[Marconi]

Finally, a man with a sensible idea about antenna comparison results for the average user.

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

don't worry about the db gain rating . where the dominate lobes are has more effect .

 

[Needle Bender]

I'd love to have time to jump in and comment but I'm having issues with my internet provider and am at a friend's only for a minute.
Hope to be back soon so I can set everyone straight

 

[The DB]

Uh oh, we are in trouble now...


The DB

 

[T23]

Looks like I need to do more homework. The results are even more inconclusive than before...

So what if I went with a Maco 103 beam as compared to these? I know its directional gain. Benefits/not benefits?


T23

 

[W5LZ]

A beam's benefit is increased gain in a particular direction. It's disadvantages are less gain in other directions, generally costs more, requires some means of turning/pointing it, and a stouter support pole/tower.
- 'Doc

 

[T23]

Ok, well I guess Ill be staying with an omni then. Lets say I did go with the spt-500 or a maco 5/8 or the Tornado, could I expect 30-35 mile range from a 100 watt export on SSB if the tower was 20 - 30 - 40 ft. ?

And if so, then what range in one direction could I get from a m103 or a Maco V-Quad at the same hight? I just want to get this right, I got a lead on my new base rig now... My area is very flat, with fields and woods, and some very very rolling hills.


T23

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

T23 , i've talked from 95 and chippenham to the TA in ashland on a lil will with a uniden and a 200ish watt amp on the truck during the day so similar power with a much better antenna much much higher should certainly make the trip . my wire starduster barely made the trip from pocahontas state park in chesterfield down to stony creek barefooted at night . but sometimes when skip is very very strong you almost need a few hundred watts to talk to neighbors , LOL . conditions , conditions ...... i'd stick with the 500 or a workman 58 . i don't trust the plastic insulator on the tornado and i'm a believer in full 1/4 wl ground elements .

 

[T23]

Good numbers.... I assume this was SSB? And no skip conditions?


T23

 

[T23]

Yeah, the plastic insulators are somthing to think about.....

Looks like this thread has caused alot of stir.

T23

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

to ashland i was on am during the day on channel 19 , i think it was a saturday not much noise and i don't recall skip . i was suprised myself , i wasn't blowing his doors off by any-means , had to repeat myself a few times ....... . but if that little antenna did that ..... you get the point .

 

[T23]

How far off the ground is your antenna?


Oh, wait you already told me... Mobile forgot..

 

[The DB]

Ok, well I guess Ill be staying with an omni then. Lets say I did go with the spt-500 or a maco 5/8 or the Tornado, could I expect 30-35 mile range from a 100 watt export on SSB if the tower was 20 - 30 - 40 ft. ?

And if so, then what range in one direction could I get from a m103 or a Maco V-Quad at the same hight? I just want to get this right, I got a lead on my new base rig now... My area is very flat, with fields and woods, and some very very rolling hills.


T23

For one this is heavily dependent on line of sight. If you live in an area of hills, the bigger the hills the higher you need to get the antennas to get the range you desire. If everything is dead flat where you live you can get away with much less height. I have heard reports of people talking direct over 200 miles away base to base, however their antennas are on large towers, and there is generally no large hill in between. Height makes all of the difference here. Height can also help minimize or eliminate dead spots caused by hills as well.


The DB