Is the Sirio Gain Master really a good DX vertical ?

[RadioDaze]

Good replies as always. I actually have a 3 element beam but beams do not float my boat. I think it would just be too easy. Maybe I will need it at the back end of this 11 year cycle to catch the last of the weaker skip.

I have recently reduced my power output down to about 160W PEP. It came to my attention that I was over driving my amp and sometimes (not always) my audio got more scratchy, depending on antenna used and QTH/mounting style of the antenna.

I put a 1/2 decent signal into Lombok Island Indonesia with the Gain Master and 160W PEP today (Bruno) I think he could be classed a power station he was giving me a signal 9, booming in this morning. (about 7,600 miles distance)

Seems like it is working ok, I earthed my vehicle and the antenna pole at a basic level today as well. Seemed not to do any harm.

It is sobering to think that there is just 1dB or so difference between most 5/8 wave antennas. It brings perspective.I have the Solarcon MAX2000 for a quick set up option in winter I look forwards to trying that antenna more, for fun and convenient erection. For now I stick with the devil I know, the Gain Master, as I know where I am with it and no CMC on the coax complications for now.

(For mobile static my Gain Master has been modified to make it much more light and easy to assemble. I cable tie a super lightweight fishing rod to the base section and run the coax/wires of the GM and attach with insulating tape. SWR = 1.15:1 is typical.)

Great forum and members, thanks.

 

[vkrules]

Good replies as always. I actually have a 3 element beam but beams do not float my boat. I think it would just be too easy. Maybe I will need it at the back end of this 11 year cycle to catch the last of the weaker skip.

I have recently reduced my power output down to about 160W PEP. It came to my attention that I was over driving my amp and sometimes (not always) my audio got more scratchy, depending on antenna used and QTH/mounting style of the antenna.

I put a 1/2 decent signal into Lombok Island Indonesia with the Gain Master and 160W PEP today (Bruno) I think he could be classed a power station he was giving me a signal 9, booming in this morning. (about 7,600 miles distance)

Seems like it is working ok, I earthed my vehicle and the antenna pole at a basic level today as well. Seemed not to do any harm.

It is sobering to think that there is just 1dB or so difference between most 5/8 wave antennas. It brings perspective.I have the Solarcon MAX2000 for a quick set up option in winter I look forwards to trying that antenna more, for fun and convenient erection. For now I stick with the devil I know, the Gain Master, as I know where I am with it and no CMC on the coax complications for now.

(For mobile static my Gain Master has been modified to make it much more light and easy to assemble. I cable tie a super lightweight fishing rod to the base section and run the coax/wires of the GM and attach with insulating tape. SWR = 1.15:1 is typical.)

Great forum and members, thanks.

Have fun while you can.Be very interested to hear what you have to say this time next year.Hope we can make contact before the hiatus.

 

[222DBFL]

I could see why a beam would be a PITA to setup in frigid weather. You def. need something that can be setup as fast as possible. Another member here uses a moxon that doesn't take much time to setup, he lives in Vermont. It does get right cold there!! But anyway he always had great things to say about the moxon like some others may have posted. And they don't have to be real high off ground. 20ft is plenty!! Im sure with some thought you could figure a way to move it around while still sitting in vehicle. Anyway, I know it's not related to the IMAX 2000 or the GM. But they are one heck of a dx antenna. We would talk from his qth in VT. To my qth in FL. We had some hour long qso's with no drop outs. Him with the moxon and me with a dipole at 18ft. Conditions were good, but the antenna worked well. And he was a static mobile like you. Member name is hobie 102. He hasn't been on in forever, but I'm sure he'll show up when the conditions open up some. Anyway just some food for thought. Have a great day.

 

[RadioDaze]

Thanks, yes a Moxon is a very good option for a beam style antenna, potentially very light.

I have an un explainable fascination for omni directional vertical antennas. Philosophically they make a real "Station" instead of a RF arrow. All directions encompassed, not a discriminatory RX and TX footprint.

An arguable point of course but having an extremely high performing vertical antenna seems to hold great interest for me.

They just seem (illogically to be fair) more interesting than anything horizontal and directional for me personally.

Horizontal beams are going to be the way forward when the cycle starts dying off and I need to crack a strong signal out in one direction, agreed.

 

[M0GVZ]

An arguable point of course but having an extremely high performing vertical antenna seems to hold great interest for me.

Whilst there are vertical antenna designs which have quite high gain, the downside is their size for 11m band makes them impractical. I have a friend who runs a commercial radio tower and has a vertical antenna for VHF repeaters which has 5.5dBd at 0 degree take off angle. Its over 16ft tall for 156MHz so I would hate to think of the height of an 11m version.

http://www.amphenol-antennas.com/getattachment/3ded78d8-c135-4e19-8507-f4cdcf4e9211/7073xxx.aspx

 

[RadioDaze]

That sounds very cool. Is it like the equivalent of stacked dipoles in a thin package ?

 

[Needle Bender]

...its over 16ft tall for 156MHz so I would hate to think of the height of an 11m version.

Oh, only around 95' or so. (for a 4-bay)

 

[RadioDaze]

With regards to the original topic title. I think the answer is clearly yes it can be a good DX antenna. But is probably subject to the ambiguity of exact TOA's at the days QTH, local ground losses (actually rather minimal differences at 27mhz) vs size and height of F2 layer ionization charges in terms of S reports vs other local stations.

I am just drilling deeper into vertical antennas and my mind is currently on getting the MAX2000 performing as well as it possibly can given my typical mast heights. The Max2000 is my 5/8 wave ground plane antenna test bed. That is currently a work in progress, plans are afoot that involve a small section of ABS tubing, resin wood glue and a frisbee, I think you can imagine what is hapening.

Really enjoying the experimenting, an active mind is a joyous thing.

The Gain Master is up there as one of the best (if not the best).

 

[gamegetter]

you might find this an interesting read and it may spur further discussion(s)...

http://www.bighairantennas.com/

have a good day and enjoy the hobby

 

[RadioDaze]

Ultimately I think there will be slightly better performing 5/8 waves than the MAX2000. In part it's choice was convenience based as a screw together antenna compared with the Gain Master I also use.

I believe it will require a good ground plane to get even close to a Gain Master in general terms above decent ground on a pole. Once this condition is met I think it could work similarly although with slightly higher matching losses from the coil section. (It does look a little thin and tightly wound compared with Sirio 5/8th GPA's, even their basic 5/8 wave)

But the Sirio 5/8th GPA's are not very practical for a mobile static station. (They use a screw jointing system, fine for base station permanent install, bad for mobile static)

I operate in low QRM QTH's so I am especially interested to compare base line RX hiss levels. (on my relatively cheap and cheerful radio, the Alinco DR-135UK. (I managed 10,200 mile to Australia and no tropo enhanced 240 mile point to point UK contacts with it using the GM, so it is a snazzy little radio that works - using a clean 150W PEP with linear)

I think (but am not 100pct sure) that RX hiss seemed up a little on the MAX2000 compared with the GM, this may be mitigated once the ground plane radials are installed.

 

[RadioDaze]

This is how I put my Gain Master together for mobile static use although I use re-usable nylon cable ties now instead of the cloth tape (gaffer tape). You can see I attach a very light weight fibre glass fishing rod to the base section and just run the water proofed cable up the pole and use a little insulating tape every 60cms or so to keep it on.

Works well and makes it very light. Not so easy when cold and wet ! (Partial reason why I have a MAX2000 as well)

 

[Onelasttime]

I know this is old but here goes. I actually have seen a set of beams that just barley clear the ground. Their is maybe 5 foot between the lowest point and the ground. Yes they are on a rotor as well. Craziest thing I have ever seen!!! I live in Michigan and I can not imagine how he keeps these clear of snow drifting in the winter time. I have driven past them about twice in the last 5 years. Obviously something higher than his set up but far lower than 50++ feet could be done.

 

[Mark Malcomb]

Man, I want to skip again. Been 30 years since my ground plane finally fell mortally to the santa ana winds of California. Now in AZ, in a HOA and dont what antenna I can get away with. Too many reviews to comprehend
Gain Master seems to be good, however my ground plain use to kick ass. 500 watt Johnson Skipper may have helped.......Thanks for any advice. Malcomb AKA Master Cylinder!

 

[Big Kahuna]

Since this thread popped up again I'll add this - the other day I pulled out my Gain Master and set it up to do some testing by attaching it to a piece of pipe and leaning it against the gutter. SWR was 1.2. I laid it on the ground afterwards and then went inside.

Next day I came out to do some more testing and about 10 minutes in I noticed my SWR was 1.5 which was weird. I peeked outside and forgot I had left the antenna lying on the ground.

I've testing a ton of vertical antennas and I can't ever remember one that had a 1.5 SWR while lying on gravel right next to the house. Even with it leaning up against the gutter and only 1/2 the antenna being higher than the house I was able to talk to someone 30 miles away who said I was coming in very loud.

I've been very impressed with this antenna and I've taken it apart and put it back together 10 times or so and it's still holding up - I think it's 5 or 6 years old now? Maybe even older. I got mine right when they first came out.

 

[AudioShockwav]

And I have seen a lot of ground mounted antennas that work a lot better that you would think.
I know some of the old guys here remember Hook.
He was a tow truck driver that lived in Texas and a member here long ago.
Can't remember his call but he did get his ticket after a while.
He used to run a A99 10 feet off the ground at his house and always had a rod knocking signal out here in Ca when the band was open.
Sure wish those sunspot numbers would start climbing.

73
Jeff