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M104C Project
- Thread starter TimmyTheTorch
- Start date
Inching closer to trying to hoist this contraption. Both antennae are mounted to the mast, all the guy wire mounts and wires are done. Next up is wiring up the coax and rotor Should go quickly. I'm not sure if I should loop the two coax cables at the bottom near the rotor or at the top near the thrust bearing. Any opinion on this?
We decided there will be an additional pull rope going over the roof and fastened up by the base where the rotor is mounted to take some stress off the pipe joints. I hope the joints themselves are secure enough because of the inner and outer sleeves done at each joint. We'll soon see.
We decided there will be an additional pull rope going over the roof and fastened up by the base where the rotor is mounted to take some stress off the pipe joints. I hope the joints themselves are secure enough because of the inner and outer sleeves done at each joint. We'll soon see.
You did an excellent job with your antenna, now just get it up in the air!
I would make the rotor coax loop as close to the antenna feed point as possible.
I use a dual ferrite 1:1 choke balun box which is much better than an air wound coil balun and have the box mounted to the mast above the rotor. Then I use a piece of RG 213 coax for the rotor loop to the antenna feed point. RG213 is an excellent choice for a short rotor loop cable because it is stiff enough where it won't flop in the wind putting stress on the coax connector, yet flexible enough to bend while the rotor turns.
Here's 2 pics of my antennas (old setup with a Maco 103c and my current Mosley MP-33 NW ) where you can see the RG213 coax cable coming out of a choke balun box to the antenna feed point with plenty of slack for turning the rotor.
I was able to raise the antenna this morning by myself just using a 5/8" socket and cordless drill. The only issue I had/have is that as I suspected, the lowest pipe joint is still a bit weak despite having an inner pipe support/sleeve as well as an external support. The weight of the antenna, rotor, chokes, cables, etc put a lot of torque on this joint. I think before I lower it again (as I am sure I will) I will need to replace the current outer supports for this joint with something much stronger. I just hope I left enough slack in the coax to safely rotate the beam.
I started running all the guy wires and adjusting them to the proper length today but it was getting way too hot and humid out for me to continue for the time being. Some of the guy wires still have a lot of slack in them. Being dizzy from heat stroke while up on a ladder is not a good plan. I'll get back at it this evening. At least the wind is pretty much dead calm right now and for the next few days. Once I have the guy wires done I will be connecting all the grounds. Only then will I run the coax and rotor cable inside and hopefully get back on the air with a strong signal and low SWR.
I highly doubt I would go down the same path again with the mast etc if I were to start over. It was probably a lot more work than just dealing with the challenges I had with the tower location back in April. But at least I got to learn some welding skills, fuss around with some engineering friends and generally just fuss about.
I started running all the guy wires and adjusting them to the proper length today but it was getting way too hot and humid out for me to continue for the time being. Some of the guy wires still have a lot of slack in them. Being dizzy from heat stroke while up on a ladder is not a good plan. I'll get back at it this evening. At least the wind is pretty much dead calm right now and for the next few days. Once I have the guy wires done I will be connecting all the grounds. Only then will I run the coax and rotor cable inside and hopefully get back on the air with a strong signal and low SWR.
I highly doubt I would go down the same path again with the mast etc if I were to start over. It was probably a lot more work than just dealing with the challenges I had with the tower location back in April. But at least I got to learn some welding skills, fuss around with some engineering friends and generally just fuss about.
I ended up with 7 guy wires, 3 up top at 120 degree angles and 4 at mid-height at 90 degrees-ish. If a strong wind/storm ends up taking it down, that's life. But it sure does seem secure to me and I am happy about that.
The grounding is all done too.
I ended up relocating two of the lower mounting brackets because I figured if I ever need to take it down in the winter, no good could come from me having to get on an icy roof.
This weekend I should be able to get the coax and rotor wire run inside. Then, fingers crossed, it's not like the first Hubble attempt when I try to use it.
The grounding is all done too.
I ended up relocating two of the lower mounting brackets because I figured if I ever need to take it down in the winter, no good could come from me having to get on an icy roof.
This weekend I should be able to get the coax and rotor wire run inside. Then, fingers crossed, it's not like the first Hubble attempt when I try to use it.
Attachments
Well, I finished up running the new coax and rotator wire from outside to my humble radio shack in my basement office. All the grounding is finished and there are only a few fussy little jobs to complete like making a small water resistant cover for the two lightning/surge protectors in the coax. I may just use an empty Coffee Mate container I have on hand, no need to get too fancy with this.
I haven't made any contacts yet but there is a remarkable difference in my ability to hear contacts on the M104C versus the V58. I'm going to give it another try tonight.
To mark the occasion, I have been stung by a hornet twice in the last two days. once in the palm and once on the top of the head. Pushy little fekker shouldn't have done that. I a very much a live and let live person but not in this case. They started it and I'm going to finish it! At least I don't have the same allergic reaction to these stings that my Mom had.
Thanks to everyone for a) your patience with me turning a two day job into 4 months and ) your advice in better ways or different options to do something.
Unit 132 northern Wisconsin out.
I haven't made any contacts yet but there is a remarkable difference in my ability to hear contacts on the M104C versus the V58. I'm going to give it another try tonight.
To mark the occasion, I have been stung by a hornet twice in the last two days. once in the palm and once on the top of the head. Pushy little fekker shouldn't have done that. I a very much a live and let live person but not in this case. They started it and I'm going to finish it! At least I don't have the same allergic reaction to these stings that my Mom had.
Thanks to everyone for a) your patience with me turning a two day job into 4 months and ) your advice in better ways or different options to do something.
Unit 132 northern Wisconsin out.
The antenna setup just passed its first test yesterday when hit with 45-50 mph winds and torrential rain.
A situation I had not thought of is the birds congregating on the beam elements. It seems to mainly be morning doves that do this. They grow to a healthy size around here and I can see the elements bending a bit when they sit there.
It has all the makings of a good arcade game but I am sure I'd miss the birds and hit the elements. Next time I have the antenna down I'll have to put something on the boom that scares them away.
A situation I had not thought of is the birds congregating on the beam elements. It seems to mainly be morning doves that do this. They grow to a healthy size around here and I can see the elements bending a bit when they sit there.
It has all the makings of a good arcade game but I am sure I'd miss the birds and hit the elements. Next time I have the antenna down I'll have to put something on the boom that scares them away.
If you key high enough they fall over
It's been a bit since I've posted here and I thought I'd do a followup. The contraptions I built and others I purchased have been working great! It's so nice to be able to lower and raise the setup myself with nothing more than a 5/8 inch socket and cordless drill. Well, at least after undoing the 7 guy wires and removing the four very large nuts securing the tilting base plate. I am glad I relocated two of the guy wires from the center of the roof to the edge of the roof so all of them are reachable to disconnect/adjust without having to climb on the very steeply pitched roof especially if I have problems during winter. My wife feels better about that too!
SWR on the beam is about 1.2:1 and the same on the V58 above it. The guy wires have all the angles covered so no problems so far with up to 60 mph wind. The mourning doves do like to congregate on the horizontal elements and they are a healthy size around here. I wish they'd at least sit closer to the boom but they ignore my requests. I have not had any ice buildup on anything yet but I'm sure that's coming soon. The Yaesu rotor is chugging alone well too. I have a Palomar Engineer MC-1-3000 choke a few feet from where the coax connects to the antenna on both the beam and V58. They're a bit heavy but are located very close to the mast so then don't seem to cause any problems.
The Carl built amp is working great with the Anytone Q5N2, K-Po hand held power mic and 120 amp power supply. I also have a President Lincoln II+ connected to a KL203 but I rarely use it. I have a K-Po desk mic that I am not using much either. The Daiwa CN-901 meter is really helping me not blow stuff up/out again. Learning the importance of PEP vs average power was, well, helpful.
Everything outside is well-grounded using three 8 foot ground rods (in addition to the main house ground rod), 4 and 6 gauge copper wire, bonding, connected to the main house ground, etc. i.e. all the stuff I learned the importance of on here about a year ago. I do still disconnect the coax when I know thunderstorms are in the area or likely.
I get good feedback on signal strength and more importantly, the clarity of my voice. It's not fuzzy, garbled, over-modulated etc. So nothing like it was when I was trying to use the KL503 amp.
I've had contacts all over North America on both AM and SSB and multiple ones to Europe on SSB. Still no luck to Australia though but that'll come when conditions and timing are right.
Given how much I like to fuss with things, at times it's hard to leave this setup alone. But really it is working as I hoped it would.
So I now have another project Mustang to tackle and can just use and enjoy the radio setup.
Big thanks again to all the kind folks here that helped me get this stuff going. I wrecked some nice gear getting here but much smarter people than me have done the same!
SWR on the beam is about 1.2:1 and the same on the V58 above it. The guy wires have all the angles covered so no problems so far with up to 60 mph wind. The mourning doves do like to congregate on the horizontal elements and they are a healthy size around here. I wish they'd at least sit closer to the boom but they ignore my requests. I have not had any ice buildup on anything yet but I'm sure that's coming soon. The Yaesu rotor is chugging alone well too. I have a Palomar Engineer MC-1-3000 choke a few feet from where the coax connects to the antenna on both the beam and V58. They're a bit heavy but are located very close to the mast so then don't seem to cause any problems.
The Carl built amp is working great with the Anytone Q5N2, K-Po hand held power mic and 120 amp power supply. I also have a President Lincoln II+ connected to a KL203 but I rarely use it. I have a K-Po desk mic that I am not using much either. The Daiwa CN-901 meter is really helping me not blow stuff up/out again. Learning the importance of PEP vs average power was, well, helpful.
Everything outside is well-grounded using three 8 foot ground rods (in addition to the main house ground rod), 4 and 6 gauge copper wire, bonding, connected to the main house ground, etc. i.e. all the stuff I learned the importance of on here about a year ago. I do still disconnect the coax when I know thunderstorms are in the area or likely.
I get good feedback on signal strength and more importantly, the clarity of my voice. It's not fuzzy, garbled, over-modulated etc. So nothing like it was when I was trying to use the KL503 amp.
I've had contacts all over North America on both AM and SSB and multiple ones to Europe on SSB. Still no luck to Australia though but that'll come when conditions and timing are right.
Given how much I like to fuss with things, at times it's hard to leave this setup alone. But really it is working as I hoped it would.
So I now have another project Mustang to tackle and can just use and enjoy the radio setup.
Big thanks again to all the kind folks here that helped me get this stuff going. I wrecked some nice gear getting here but much smarter people than me have done the same!
I'm happy to state that my homemade tiltable, pulley-assisted, cordless drill powered contraption is still standing tall and proud. It's been through a rough Wisconsin winter and plenty of strong summer storms. It's still dead-simple to lower and raise it myself using nothing more than a 3/8 inch cordless drill and a stepladder to undo the guy wires. I am glad that I relocated a few of the guy wires from their original location away from the edge of the roof to spots that could easily reach from the edge of the roof while still standing on a ladder. I figured this would also help in case I had to take it down during winter and not have to try to walk on an icy roof. I know my history and this is a very smart move on my part. Avoiding a Darwin Award for a bit longer.
I still have the same issue with the mourning doves treating it like their own perch. I suppose in a way it is. It's outside, they are outside, it has great visibility, can't blame them at all. I just hope they don't end up breaking an element when too many of them decide to take a rest.
I still have the same issue with the mourning doves treating it like their own perch. I suppose in a way it is. It's outside, they are outside, it has great visibility, can't blame them at all. I just hope they don't end up breaking an element when too many of them decide to take a rest.
My station has been working great for quite some time now. Both the Anytone Q5N2 and Radioddity QT-60 Pro are great, as is the Carl Built 200HD, as is (was) both the M104C and the V58. SWR is nearly flat on both.
Then recently I noticed I was just not able to make the contacts on the beam I used to do with no issues. Hmmm, thought I. So I took a listen to my QT-60 signal on the Q5N2 and it sound like crap but only on the beam and only when the 200HD is turned on. Same happened when transmitting on the Q5N2 and listening on the QT-60. But everything was perfect into the dummy load too.
It has all the earmarks of an RF feedback problem on the beam. But all of the bonding and grounding is still in place. The Palomar Engineering chokes are still installed. Swapping patch cables and bypassing antenna/radio switches did not help.
To me that left the coax. This spring we had an issue with the fekkin squirrels chewing through a brand new garden hose when my daughter did not reel it back in one night. I took that experience and traced the coax from both antennae where it comes down off the mast and over to the surge/lightning suppressors. Sure enough, the fekkin squirrels have been gnawing on the coax at multiple spots. One is much more damaged than the other, but both need to be replaced. Which means taking down the mast. This should still be doable by me with just a cordless drill given the pulley system in place. That's all it took for me to put it up. Oh yeah, I also need to disconnect all 7 guy wires too.
I am just hoping this will resolve the problem. I had a heck of a time getting things working well when I first setup this new station.
Then recently I noticed I was just not able to make the contacts on the beam I used to do with no issues. Hmmm, thought I. So I took a listen to my QT-60 signal on the Q5N2 and it sound like crap but only on the beam and only when the 200HD is turned on. Same happened when transmitting on the Q5N2 and listening on the QT-60. But everything was perfect into the dummy load too.
It has all the earmarks of an RF feedback problem on the beam. But all of the bonding and grounding is still in place. The Palomar Engineering chokes are still installed. Swapping patch cables and bypassing antenna/radio switches did not help.
To me that left the coax. This spring we had an issue with the fekkin squirrels chewing through a brand new garden hose when my daughter did not reel it back in one night. I took that experience and traced the coax from both antennae where it comes down off the mast and over to the surge/lightning suppressors. Sure enough, the fekkin squirrels have been gnawing on the coax at multiple spots. One is much more damaged than the other, but both need to be replaced. Which means taking down the mast. This should still be doable by me with just a cordless drill given the pulley system in place. That's all it took for me to put it up. Oh yeah, I also need to disconnect all 7 guy wires too.
I am just hoping this will resolve the problem. I had a heck of a time getting things working well when I first setup this new station.
Shadetree Mechanic
Delaware Base Station 808
Yeah, water in the coax would be a wonderful thing to find too.
Just in the last week, squirrels, chipmunks, several deer visiting the apple tree, a skunk, a fox we've named Roxy, several possum, feral cats and several neighbor's dogs have been captured on a security camera on the side of the house with the antenna mast. There are several holes in the ground near the antenna mast base that I think are inhabited by chipmunks. That will be addressed today. That's Wisconsin country living for you I suppose.
If the squirrels are just going to eat the coax shielding and ruin the coax, maybe I should feed them something less expensive than RG-213.
Your carl built Is biased I would be willing to bet. I have noticed this issue with several 2879c biased amplifers. They like some antenna systems and not others.
Shadetree Mechanic
Delaware Base Station 808
The shield where the bite marks are looks to be ok for the most part. Might just be a bad coax connection, I tore my station apart one day for a similar problem and found a bad three foot jumper.