M400 STARDUSTER OWNERS: Poll & Info please.

[Bob701]

Hello to all of you who keep the CB Antenna section interesting as heck for me to read. Your thoughts, experimentations and videos are greatly appreciated.

I had gotten out of the hobby a few years ago and at that time had been using an Anttron 305. It may have been 30' to the feedpoint. The Anttron, as far as I could tell, worked well for me. I'm in NJ very close to the beach and DX'ing across the pond was no problem. Local chit chatting with the 305 was fine, too. But it was my first base antenna so I had nothing to compare it to.

I used that antenna a for a few years before shelving my equipment.

Hearing that we have a good DX Cycle coming up I dusted of the radio and had to replace the now broken Anttron 305. The Imax 2000 seemed like a nice compromise in price and performance so I put one up. While I have the ground plain kit for it I tried it at first without it as I was concerned about the wind load. It worked well for me, too. Western Europe...again no problem, Galapagos Island and even Australia made the log book within the last 2 months. I was using a Galaxy Saturn Turbo that I have had for years.

That Imax sure is flexible and fun to watch in a good wind! Its only negative was that it had a higher noise level than I remember the 305 having. 3-5 S-Units of noise has been the norm for me with the Imax. Somedays, and especially nights, it can be less. Power lines aren't too far away and I'm sure I am hearing the buzz of leaky transformers, too.

Wanting to be able to hear the weaker stations I started reading just about every thread here. So thank you all again for your submissions which helped to guide and inform me.

I decided to try a metal antenna so the little cheap Starduster knockoff went up the other day to experiment. Its feedpoint is 35' above the ground and it's where I had the Imax.

I moved the Imax to a nearby chimney mount and it's a few feet higher than the Starduster.

Without a doubt (to the tune of 1-2 S-Units) the Starduster is quieter. That makes my ears happy. It also was tuned very nicely right out of the box.

Here's my "real and imperfect" world comparison....sometimes the Imax receives better than the Starduster and sometimes the Starduster beats out the Imax on receive. I'd guess that the Starduster rec's better 80% of the time on DX and local signals.

As far as the transmit side of things I am still trying to form an opinion. I really cannot push either antenna as I have recently been told by a neighbor that they can hear me in their home stereo on AM with the Imax. I'm not sure if that happens on sideband, but I have some ferrite toroids for them to try out. RFI was never an issue with the Anttron, but that was also a while ago and the neighbors may have installed a new sound system since my previous operation. In any event, I'm keeping it quiet for them until we try the toroids and eliminate any RFI.

At low power, and on a stock CB radio, it appears from checks I've conducted from my mobile that the Imax gets out a little better than the Starduster. I will test that some more at greater local distances.

So there's my 2 cents on a Starduster Clone. Not the most perfect of worlds for comparison purposes, but there it is. It is neat to throw the antenna switch and see a difference on the meter as well as hearing a difference between the two antennas..

I'll use the Starduster for the winter where it is, but it will replace the Imax on the chimney mount. The the fun begins again as I decided on what metal 5/8's to try. I think I have read just about all you guys have posted about them and I still don't know which one I'd want to try!

73's fellas.

Bob (701 in NJ)

 

[Marconi]

Good report Bob701. I like my Starduster and I find it very quiet as well.

What kind of knockoff did you get?

Just a tip about SD'rs. The way the feed point is setup, they can let water directly into the coax connector, not good. I use a product called "Stuf" that I get from www.AESham.com a waterproofing filler that goes right inside of the coax connections. It is easy to apply, just takes a little bit, does not get hard, and is not messy. It has worked fine for me for years, and is far better than anything else designed for that purpose.

The picture by my handle above is a home made model of the SD'r that uses 102" ss whips, a hub for an A99 GPK, and it works just as good if not better.

Good luck.

 

[Needle Bender]

Nice post Bob
I think it's a slam-dunk, the Sirio Gainmaster is your best bet for both elevated performance and low TV / stereo interference.
It has a choke built into the design that really works to keep RF from radiating the coax shield, it's quiet and outperforms the all-metal antennas if installed correctly. It's about $200 delivered so it's not a cheap antenna but I like mine and saw gain over my Penetrator.
Sounds like you're having fun again with the hobby and I hope to hear you on the air.

Oh good morning Marconi, you are sure snappy on the key-board this morning!

 

[Bob701]

Thank You Marconi,

I especially enjoy your videos. Thanks for sharing them.

I'm not sure who makes the M400 Starduster I bought. But I think it's made in China. Are links to E-bay allowed? If not, just search M400 Starduster and it will be the first one that comes up from seller "swedishmprii ".

To apply the "Stuf" you mentioned would you have to back out the vertical?

I like your home brew 102 Starduster. I bet it does work well. I'd like to try tinkering a bit more with antennas. I do have that GP Kit for the Imax....hmmmm;-)

Good report Bob701. I like my Starduster and I find it very quiet as well.

What kind of knockoff did you get?

Just a tip about SD'rs. The way the feed point is setup, they can let water directly into the coax connector, not good. I use a product called "Stuf" that I get from www.AESham.com a waterproofing filler that goes right inside of the coax connections. It is easy to apply, just takes a little bit, does not get hard, and is not messy. It has worked fine for me for years, and is far better than anything else designed for that purpose.

The picture by my handle above is a home made model of the SD'r that uses 102" ss whips, a hub for an A99 GPK, and it works just as good if not better.

Good luck.

 

[Bob701]

Thanks Needlebender. Are you the same NB67 I hear on 38LSB? If so we may have spoken before.

I have been looking at the Gainmaster and all the other offerings by Sirio and others. The one thing that keeps that antenna from being at the top of my list is the fiberglass construction. I am diggin' metal at the moment. If all metal antennas are quieter than all FG antennas then I don't know that I would buy one. But you say it's quieter. I'll watch Marconi's videos again. Heck, I should make one just to show you all the amount of noise I have to deal with 90% of the time.

I think my RFI issues is just a case of proximity and RF Overload. Our lots are not all that large here so the houses are pretty close to each other.

I do have an air-choke (coiled coax) on the Imax, but it didn't seem to help. The Starduster is also coming through our own TV upstairs so I am going to assume my neighbor could hear it in their stereo speakers, too.

DX'ing in the truck for now.

Nice post Bob
I think it's a slam-dunk, the Sirio Gainmaster is your best bet for both elevated performance and low TV / stereo interference.
It has a choke built into the design that really works to keep RF from radiating the coax shield, it's quiet and outperforms the all-metal antennas if installed correctly. It's about $200 delivered so it's not a cheap antenna but I like mine and saw gain over my Penetrator.
Sounds like you're having fun again with the hobby and I hope to hear you on the air.

Oh good morning Marconi, you are sure snappy on the key-board this morning!

 

[Needle Bender]

No, I've been using the handle of Needle Bender since 1974. The Needle bender club is only about 12 years old from what I've heard.
Don't worry about this antenna being fiberglass, it's nowhere near as noisy as my Imax was and just as quiet as the Penetrator but with somewhat better receive.
If any antenna could get RF out of your neighbor's electronics the Gainmaster would be it.

 

[hotrod]

Hello to all of you who keep the CB Antenna section interesting as heck for me to read. Your thoughts, experimentations and videos are greatly appreciated.

I had gotten out of the hobby a few years ago and at that time had been using an Anttron 305. It may have been 30' to the feedpoint. The Anttron, as far as I could tell, worked well for me. I'm in NJ very close to the beach and DX'ing across the pond was no problem. Local chit chatting with the 305 was fine, too. But it was my first base antenna so I had nothing to compare it to.

I used that antenna a for a few years before shelving my equipment.

Hearing that we have a good DX Cycle coming up I dusted of the radio and had to replace the now broken Anttron 305. The Imax 2000 seemed like a nice compromise in price and performance so I put one up. While I have the ground plain kit for it I tried it at first without it as I was concerned about the wind load. It worked well for me, too. Western Europe...again no problem, Galapagos Island and even Australia made the log book within the last 2 months. I was using a Galaxy Saturn Turbo that I have had for years.

That Imax sure is flexible and fun to watch in a good wind! Its only negative was that it had a higher noise level than I remember the 305 having. 3-5 S-Units of noise has been the norm for me with the Imax. Somedays, and especially nights, it can be less. Power lines aren't too far away and I'm sure I am hearing the buzz of leaky transformers, too.

Wanting to be able to hear the weaker stations I started reading just about every thread here. So thank you all again for your submissions which helped to guide and inform me.

I decided to try a metal antenna so the little cheap Starduster knockoff went up the other day to experiment. Its feedpoint is 35' above the ground and it's where I had the Imax.

I moved the Imax to a nearby chimney mount and it's a few feet higher than the Starduster.

Without a doubt (to the tune of 1-2 S-Units) the Starduster is quieter. That makes my ears happy. It also was tuned very nicely right out of the box.

Here's my "real and imperfect" world comparison....sometimes the Imax receives better than the Starduster and sometimes the Starduster beats out the Imax on receive. I'd guess that the Starduster rec's better 80% of the time on DX and local signals.

As far as the transmit side of things I am still trying to form an opinion. I really cannot push either antenna as I have recently been told by a neighbor that they can hear me in their home stereo on AM with the Imax. I'm not sure if that happens on sideband, but I have some ferrite toroids for them to try out. RFI was never an issue with the Anttron, but that was also a while ago and the neighbors may have installed a new sound system since my previous operation. In any event, I'm keeping it quiet for them until we try the toroids and eliminate any RFI.

At low power, and on a stock CB radio, it appears from checks I've conducted from my mobile that the Imax gets out a little better than the Starduster. I will test that some more at greater local distances.

So there's my 2 cents on a Starduster Clone. Not the most perfect of worlds for comparison purposes, but there it is. It is neat to throw the antenna switch and see a difference on the meter as well as hearing a difference between the two antennas..

I'll use the Starduster for the winter where it is, but it will replace the Imax on the chimney mount. The the fun begins again as I decided on what metal 5/8's to try. I think I have read just about all you guys have posted about them and I still don't know which one I'd want to try!

73's fellas.

Bob (701 in NJ)

thanks great review.i think having a quiet antenna is best cause if ya cant hear them
ya cant talk to them.and i do believe u did see slightly higher s units with the imax i would expect it. in either case was all the contacts made on the imax still able to do on the starduster?heres another test keep the tips of both antennas the same and probaly wont be much if any difference between the 2

 

[Bob701]

Thank you, Needlebender.

You make the Gain Master sound like a winner, for sure. Maybe higher noise levels are just a characteristic of the Imax. And I am sure my location is not helping in that regard.

Just this morning I was reminded of why I like metal right now. Europe was just starting to come in and the voices were unreadable in the static/noise of the Imax. I flipped the switch to the Starduster and the volume/signal levels of everything went down a bit, but the static/noise levels dropped low enough that the voices became completely readable.

Living along the shore I like the idea of having a fiberglass antenna up so I may yet try the Gain Master. And who's to say that the Starduster's performance may not begin to suffer in the salty air... it's only been up 5 days now.

It's fun finding out though.

Bob

No, I've been using the handle of Needle Bender since 1974. The Needle bender club is only about 12 years old from what I've heard.
Don't worry about this antenna being fiberglass, it's nowhere near as noisy as my Imax was and just as quiet as the Penetrator but with somewhat better receive.
If any antenna could get RF out of your neighbor's electronics the Gainmaster would be it.

 

[Needle Bender]

Bob, I'm amazed by how well the Gainmaster DXes into Europe, it's like I have a beam! I keep getting reports of S9+10 and am only running 100w.
It's a keeper!

 

[Bob701]

Thank you, Hotrod.

As soon as I get the RFI issues worked out with the neighbors I will be comparing the Imax to the Starduster on transmit for local and DX. And I will happily share my findings here with everybody.

One issue I have noticed is that the Starduster completely blocks out a local S-7 signal to the Imax in some situations.

3 local were chatting the other night and I could hear all 3 perfectly fine S-7 to S-9 on all with the Starduster. One of the operators was completely lost when I switched to the Imax.

I attribute that phenomenon to the fact that both antennas are closer together than they should be. 12' or so.

From what I have read here it seems like they should be at least one wavelength apart...if not more. This is not a permanent installation so I didn't bother to adhere to that rule.

thanks great review.i think having a quiet antenna is best cause if ya cant hear them
ya cant talk to them.and i do believe u did see slightly higher s units with the imax i would expect it. in either case was all the contacts made on the imax still able to do on the starduster?heres another test keep the tips of both antennas the same and probaly wont be much if any difference between the 2

 

[Marconi]

Thank You Marconi,

I especially enjoy your videos. Thanks for sharing them.

I'm not sure who makes the M400 Starduster I bought. But I think it's made in China. Are links to E-bay allowed? If not, just search M400 Starduster and it will be the first one that comes up from seller "swedishmprii ".

To apply the "Stuf" you mentioned would you have to back out the vertical?

I like your home brew 102 Starduster. I bet it does work well. I'd like to try tinkering a bit more with antennas. I do have that GP Kit for the Imax....hmmmm;-)

Thanks for the kind words on my Marconi X antenna, it does work surprisingly well. It is not cheap however at todays prices for 102" whips. I happened to have some laying around so it is cheap for me.

Bob, the Stuf is applied inside the coax connector before you screw them together of course. It is advertised as a waterproofing filler that protects the open end of the coax, and it works for me.

I don't like the design of the Imax GPK. It is not symmetrical. IMO a 1/4 wave radiator works best if the radials are as close to the radiator as possible, and as symmetrical as you can get them. The A99 hub does the radial setup nicely if you can get it real close to the radiator. There's an image of my Marconi X above...next to my handle.

Tips to consider: make sure and get all your antenna connections secure without stripping. Proper use and placement of locking washers are essential, the wind can be a problem.

I also notice that your choke is a few inches away from the feed point on your Imax. The closer the better. The choke on the Gain Master probably shows us how precise placement makes a big difference. Some also report good success using chokes without radials on the Imax. IMO, it may be better to use radials that allow current to flow, else the currents may flow right over the choke and down the mast and feed line without it working as intended. Closer may also have some effect on performance, but it may be hard to tell. It's always better to have them farther apart.

 

[Bob701]

That's good to hear, NB.

I like being able to make the trip at low power...it's like the challenge of light tackle fishing.

Just had a short QSO with an operator near Manchester, UK. Used the M400 and a stock HR2510 that I usually keep in the truck. Conditions were not the best, but that's a good indicator to me. When conditions are better I will try alternating antennas.

Bob, I'm amazed by how well the Gainmaster DXes into Europe, it's like I have a beam! I keep getting reports of S9+10 and am only running 100w.
It's a keeper!

 

[Bob701]

Thank you for the clarification, Marconi.

I just checked the GP Kit I have for the Imax and see what you mean about it not being symmetrical. It's seems kinda flimsy, too. I can always throw it up with the Imax to see if it matters any. It did say in the directions that the radials should be 9' above the roof, if I remember right. Do you think that matters?

I can also check that choke position while I'm at it.

Do you think it would be possible -with the use of a field strength meter- to determine a good/safe distance to place an antenna (for a certain wattage output) so as to not cause RFI/TVI?

I have to remember to hit the refresh button after typing away slowly. I did not see your last response until just now.

Bob

Thanks for the kind words on my Marconi X antenna, it does work surprisingly well. It is not cheap however at todays prices for 102" whips. I happened to have some laying around so it is cheap for me.

Bob, the Stuf is applied inside the coax connector before you screw them together of course. It is advertised as a waterproofing filler that protects the open end of the coax, and it works for me.

I don't like the design of the Imax GPK. It is not symmetrical. IMO a 1/4 wave radiator works best if the radials are as close to the radiator as possible, and as symmetrical as you can get them. The A99 hub does the radial setup nicely if you can get it real close to the radiator. There's an image of my Marconi X above...next to my handle.

Tips to consider: make sure and get all your antenna connections secure without stripping. Proper use and placement of locking washers are essential, the wind can be a problem.

I also notice that your choke is a few inches away from the feed point on your Imax. The closer the better. The choke on the Gain Master probably shows us how precise placement makes a big difference. Some also report good success using chokes without radials on the Imax. IMO, it may be better to use radials that allow current to flow, else the currents may flow right over the choke and down the mast and feed line without it working as intended. Closer may also have some effect on performance, but it may be hard to tell. It's always better to have them farther apart.

 

[hotrod]

Thank you, Hotrod.

As soon as I get the RFI issues worked out with the neighbors I will be comparing the Imax to the Starduster on transmit for local and DX. And I will happily share my findings here with everybody.

One issue I have noticed is that the Starduster completely blocks out a local S-7 signal to the Imax in some situations.

3 local were chatting the other night and I could hear all 3 perfectly fine S-7 to S-9 on all with the Starduster. One of the operators was completely lost when I switched to the Imax.

I attribute that phenomenon to the fact that both antennas are closer together than they should be. 12' or so.

From what I have read here it seems like they should be at least one wavelength apart...if not more. This is not a permanent installation so I didn't bother to adhere to that rule.

not sue why you,d get rfi issues with the starduster???? the imax i could mine was horrible.
the one operator that was lost on the imax was his signal really low s-1 or lower?? if so
the high noise level of the imax is probaly to blame.if ya do get a gain master make sure
theres no other antennas around .and get it up at least 30 feet. from what ive read here
this antenna likes to be alone in the sky. and other antennas seem to hinder the performance of it.

 

[Marconi]

Thank You Marconi,

I especially enjoy your videos. Thanks for sharing them.

I'm not sure who makes the M400 Starduster I bought. But I think it's made in China. Are links to E-bay allowed? If not, just search M400 Starduster and it will be the first one that comes up from seller "swedishmprii ".

To apply the "Stuf" you mentioned would you have to back out the vertical?

I like your home brew 102 Starduster. I bet it does work well. I'd like to try tinkering a bit more with antennas. I do have that GP Kit for the Imax....hmmmm;-)

No you don't have to back out the vertical, but you will have to take the antenna apart at the hub to get to the feed point connector. Then squeeze a little Stuf inside the PL259 and re-attach it.

not sue why you,d get rfi issues with the starduster???? the imax i could mine was horrible.
the one operator that was lost on the imax was his signal really low s-1 or lower?? if so
the high noise level of the imax is probaly to blame.if ya do get a gain master make sure
theres no other antennas around .and get it up at least 30 feet. from what ive read here
this antenna likes to be alone in the sky. and other antennas seem to hinder the performance of it.

Hotrod, I don't think Bob701 indicated that his SD'r made TVI for his neighbor, I think he said it was his Imax, but Bob would know best.