Maco 103c Beam Antenna

[Captain Kilowatt]

I hear what everyone is saying and I really appreciate your help.. Very much.. So maybe that's a bad idea then.. What else can I do if I do not want to do the tower thing? I guess I will have to rethink what I am going to do..

Way back in 1976 when I first started in radio I had a 3 1/2 or 4 inch pipe at the end of the house. It was a full 22 feet long and the bottom was cemented in place and the top was bolted to the peak of the house. Welded to the top of it were two collars of IIRC 2 1/2 inch pipe with threaded holes to insert lock bolts. Another piece of 2 inch pipe was slid up and down inside the collars and the lock bolts secured things in place to keep the mast from dropping. This supported a Wilson Shooting Star dual polarity beam. I could loosen the lock bolts and drop the upper piece of pipe to make adjustments or to manually rotate the antenna as this was before I had a rotator. The boom was about 30-33 feet off the ground. Using an Imax it would be much lighter to lift into the final operating height than my beam was.

 

[Troubleshooter]

Way back in 1976 when I first started in radio I had a 3 1/2 or 4 inch pipe at the end of the house. It was a full 22 feet long and the bottom was cemented in place and the top was bolted to the peak of the house. Welded to the top of it were two collars of IIRC 2 1/2 inch pipe with threaded holes to insert lock bolts. Another piece of 2 inch pipe was slid up and down inside the collars and the lock bolts secured things in place to keep the mast from dropping. This supported a Wilson Shooting Star dual polarity beam. I could loosen the lock bolts and drop the upper piece of pipe to make adjustments or to manually rotate the antenna as this was before I had a rotator. The boom was about 30-33 feet off the ground. Using an Imax it would be much lighter to lift into the final operating height than my beam was.

So if I use 3 10 foot sections of pipe, and get the bottom of antenna roughly 30 feet in the air I will be good to go with my setup? 3 1/2" pipe in ground with concrete, 3" pipe inside of that, cross bolted, 2 1/2" pipe into that cross bolted, then Imax antenna attached to that with the ground plane?

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

So if I use 3 10 foot sections of pipe, and get the bottom of antenna roughly 30 feet in the air I will be good to go with my setup? 3 1/2" pipe in ground with concrete, 3" pipe inside of that, cross bolted, 2 1/2" pipe into that cross bolted, then Imax antenna attached to that with the ground plane?

I would approve that in less than a heartbeat if the pipe was secured to the house/garage peak.

 

[Troubleshooter]

I would approve that in less than a heartbeat if the pipe was secured to the house/garage peak.

Ok, we are now getting somewhere.. And the antenna will perform well at that height? I heard from a few different people that the bottom of the antenna has to be 40 feet off the ground.. But others here have said whoever gave me that info is wrong.. I know myself that height is might, but as long as it performs well at 30+ feet I will be good to go.. Maybe it had something to do with the ground wave or something, cannot really remember.. Hey again, I appreciate everyone's help and as I said before, I am so glad I joined this site, a lot of good people here.. Thanks everyone..

Pete

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Ok, we are now getting somewhere.. And the antenna will perform well at that height? I heard from a few different people that the bottom of the antenna has to be 40 feet off the ground.. But others here have said whoever gave me that info is wrong.. I know myself that height is might, but as long as it performs well at 30+ feet I will be good to go.. Maybe it had something to do with the ground wave or something, cannot really remember.. Hey again, I appreciate everyone's help and as I said before, I am so glad I joined this site, a lot of good people here.. Thanks everyone..

Pete

There is a fallacy out in CB-land (one of many) that says that an antenna must be one wavelength high in order to be effective. The funny thing is that most hams strive to get their antennas a minimum of a half wavelength high on 20m and lower. I can't count the number of CB antennas I have seen and heard on the air that were simply mounted on the peak of a house making them less than 30 feet high. there is no doubt that higher is better especially for long distance local talking but for DX you will see very little difference when changing 10 or 20 feet or more in some cases. If the antenna can be located above other buildings etc in the immediate area then half the battle has been won.

 

[tba02]

30 feet and in the clear will work just fine.

Most of what you have read regarding height above ground is an extrapolation of how a dipole behaves at a certain height above ground. While this does matter in in certain circumstances, it has little relevance to this scenario.

 

[222DBFL]

My Sirio vector 4000 is about 27ft to the base. I am able to talk locally out to about 70 miles consistently. Also just today I was able to make quick contact with a guy all the way across the state of FL and south of me. From Daytona Beach, FL to Sarasota, FL. That is 155 miles. Just thought I would put that out there. My antenna isn't much longer than the IMAX 2000, and you will have a couple feet of height over me from the ground if you get it to 30ft. I would do as many have said and double wall the pipe. It will help a bunch. I have a similar setup as you speak of, but I used my chimney as a brace and also 2 pipes side by side and also double walled my mast pipe. 2" to 1 5/8" fence rail was used as well as 1 1/4" pipe and 1 1/2" pipe to double wall my mast pipe. I also have used Dacron and para cord rope at about the 20ft mark to also brace the mast. It has seen some good storms and wind this past summer and it doesn't move or sway in the wind very much at all. Just some food for thought. But doubling the pipe and bracing it against the house will help a lot as well as using guyed wires as high as you can get them. Not trying to tell you how to build your mat setup, just some things I did that seemed to help tremendously with strength and also stability of the mast and antenna. And like said, get it up to 30ft and you will be just fine for both local and DX work. I made several contacts just today before the weather shut me down. And my antenna is long as heck too at 28ft. Again, this is just some food for thought. Spend once and put it up once. Then you won't have to worry so much about it blowing over in a bad storm. Hope this helps and have a good day. Here is a pic of my antenna and mast setup before I added the guyed ropes. It is hard to tell in the pics, but fine the ground to 20ft there is 2 sets of pipes mounted together as well as having the mast pipe itself double walled all the way up to 20ft. as well. Again, hope this helps and have a good one. And be safe as well!!!

 

[Troubleshooter]

30 feet and in the clear will work just fine.

Most of what you have read regarding height above ground is an extrapolation of how a dipole behaves at a certain height above ground. While this does matter in in certain circumstances, it has little relevance to this scenario.

Great.. Thanks.. I will get t up 30 feet in the air then, and there will be nothing blocking it as well, clear and wide open...

 

[222DBFL]

Good deal man. Just be safe and take your time. Also make sure you use all stainless steel hardware for the bolting of the sections. And it might not be a bad idea to double wall the bottom 2 sections of pipe. Not trying to tell you how to put your mast together, just wanted to throw it out there as it will make it stronger. Just add another 3" pipe inside the 3.5" pipe and add another piece of pipe inside the 2nd section as well. It might seem like overkill, but you won't have to worry as much about it coming down!! JMHO's. Also get as many hands on deck as possible when you go to lift the antenna as to keep it from getting stressed too much at various points. Just some more food for thought. Again, be safe and take your time!!
73 and God bless.
222 Daytona Bch., FL
Sean.

 

[Marconi]

I use to install using push-up poles that I could handle collapsed...all by my self...but the rule that follows is always guy that bugger well. Pay attention to the physical limitations in all efforts, and keep the plant life cut back, or make the install out in the wide open spaces if possible.

Due to the high cost of home repairs, I will never again attach any antenna parts to my home or its roof.

Just my advice if one can not install a good sturdy fee standing tower.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

I use to install using push-up poles that I could handle collapsed...all by my self...but the rule that follows is always guy that bugger well. Pay attention to the physical limitations in all efforts, and keep the plant life cut back, or make the install out in the wide open spaces if possible.

Due to the high cost of home repairs, I will never again attach any antenna parts to my home or its roof.

Just my advice if one can not install a good sturdy fee standing tower.

You just have to do it right. I would never install anything directly on my roof but a decent eve mount is fine. You obviously want more than a single one inch finish board to mount too and ideally would install small blocks of 2x4 behind the finish board as a more secure point to attach lag screws, not nails or wood screws but lag screws or lag bolts. Galvanized of course. You only need one point at the very top if the mast sits in the ground. Lots of calking and paint around the anchors and you are all set. Roof installs have been known to last as long as the roof if done right but I still would not want one myself. To do it right you need to install 2x4's or 2x6's between the rafters and use bolts and nuts with large washers to distribute the force. Lots of roofing tar around the attachment points and you are good to go for many years. the biggest single mistake people make is simply using screws on the legs of a tripod mount or even simple lag screws into the roofing material without any reinforcements on the undersides.

 

[Marconi]

You just have to do it right.

I agree CK, and I thought I did it right, but........

I use to have a 15 x 10' foot flat roof deck on my roof. It was built-up construction, with plenty of tar paper, and gravel for the deck with solid 1" weather treated 4' x 8' plywood on the top of the original roof structure. This was a result of an addition to my home. I mounted plenty of antennas on this deck, and all were supported by a 6" cast iron vent pipe to my original bath. I had this pipe reinforced within the attic and outside as well. This part never failed me, but the areas I seldom walked on attached to this area and one large valley suffered from me being up there...I found out years latter. I always guyed this work station as well, to the building, and I did not do a good job there as well. With three guying setups supporting the 10' foot working tilt over...I again realized latter the damage this caused...and it cost me a bundle to repair when added to a normal roof repair.

This is why I don't recommend antennas on the roof. My actual roof material lasted me a long time too, but the structure below is what failed.

 

[Troubleshooter]

You just have to do it right. I would never install anything directly on my roof but a decent eve mount is fine. You obviously want more than a single one inch finish board to mount too and ideally would install small blocks of 2x4 behind the finish board as a more secure point to attach lag screws, not nails or wood screws but lag screws or lag bolts. Galvanized of course. You only need one point at the very top if the mast sits in the ground. Lots of calking and paint around the anchors and you are all set. Roof installs have been known to last as long as the roof if done right but I still would not want one myself. To do it right you need to install 2x4's or 2x6's between the rafters and use bolts and nuts with large washers to distribute the force. Lots of roofing tar around the attachment points and you are good to go for many years. the biggest single mistake people make is simply using screws on the legs of a tripod mount or even simple lag screws into the roofing material without any reinforcements on the undersides.

Thanks guys, again, much appreciated.. My friend is going to help put it up, he does construction for a living, home improvements and what not, he is very very good.. I had him do quite a bit of stuff at my house already, so I will leave it up to him how to secure it as I would not doubt him in the least.. But I have saved what you guys have commented on and will pass it along, you can never have to much help. I am so anxious to finally get it up and get my station running.. Man, it's been 20 + years.. After all this though I am probably going to be disappointed when I turn on the radio, hope not though. I got out of the hobby 20 years ago because there was no one on anymore, I know it's hit or miss now a days, but none the less, I want to get back on, and hopefully give you guys a shout out and maybe we can catch some skip..

 

[222DBFL]

It's pretty sporadic these days, the DX that is, but there are some days when it does get okay!!! Just not the same as a couple of years ago that's for sure!!!

 

[Troubleshooter]

It's pretty sporadic these days, the DX that is, but there are some days when it does get okay!!! Just not the same as a couple of years ago that's for sure!!!

I hear ya on that... It will just be nice to finally get myself back on the band again.. This time around my setup will also be done the right way.. I made sure I got 96 feet of coax and 12 foot jumpers so all the numbers are correct.. Getting setup the right way makes a world of difference and it all starts with the antenna and the coax.. One of my friends now suggested I go with a mr coily Excalibur base antenna over the IMAX 2000 with ground plane kit.. I am tempted to order it, I have heard good things about them, especially the mr coily enforcer.. I really do not want to buy a 3rd antenna though. So far the IMAX 2000 w/gpk and Maco 103c are still in there respective boxes.. But like I had posted, the beam is out, going with the IMAX, but now he has me thinking of the mr coily Excalibur.. Anyone have any advice on which one to go with, Excalibur or IMAX?