My Lightning 6 Quad antenna

[murdog]

Signal Engineering "is" Lightning Antenna's...Lightning bought out Signal Engineering, and made a few changes on the designs, but still I think basically the same.

CubeX quads are not dual polarity....

Thanx for the input Jesse I know the history of the two companies , after looking at the CubeX element supports the antenna I have is not a CubeX so leaning towards the Signal Engineering side .Not worried about having a dual polarity so flat side is good for me . I am lucky enough to have an acre at the lake so have room enough for towers , alum , fiberglass , and wire .
But do miss my PDL 11 should have never sold it .
Mur

 

[dennis4040]

I don't know for sure, but I would added the extra support anyway and consider it as insurance. I tried phillystran antenna guy line with nylon cover and it tended to stretch a little, so I used very thin steel wire on my beams and based on no changes to the match...I could not tell a difference.

Ask 543_Dallas, I think he use to run SE L4+ or larger.

I sent 543_Dallas a pm.

 

[Marconi]

I happy to help with anything I can, it would be great to have a model of this antenna!

Well Dennis I created the basic idea for the L4+ with the length of wires you provided at 28.4 MHz using the spacing I got from Harvey and Elliott...with no matching device.

The model shows to be really short (capacitive) as noted below.

So, the model really needs the 1/4 wave tuning system in order to show the proper resonance.

At this point my idea for this matcher added to the model does not fix the problem and the skewing noted for the images in the manual (not to scale) leave me guessing about the specific dimensions for the tuner parts.

Can you give met the dimensions for the 5 plastic offset brackets?

Are the wire holes in the brackets about 1" apart?

 

[dennis4040]

Well Dennis I created the basic idea for the L4+ with the length of wires you provided at 28.4 MHz using the spacing I got from Harvey and Elliott...with no matching device.

The model shows to be really short (capacitive) as noted below.

So, the model really needs the 1/4 wave tuning system in order to show the proper resonance.

At this point my idea for this matcher added to the model does not fix the problem and the skewing noted for the images in the manual (not to scale) leave me guessing about the specific dimensions for the tuner parts.

Can you give met the dimensions for the 5 plastic offset brackets?

Are the wire holes in the brackets about 1" apart?

Sounds like you have a good start there.
I was thinking about that earlier about the matching dimensions. I just got home and have a service call in the morning but I will get that for you tomorrow. I'll get the spacing and everything you need.

 

[dennis4040]

Well Dennis I created the basic idea for the L4+ with the length of wires you provided at 28.4 MHz using the spacing I got from Harvey and Elliott...with no matching device.

The model shows to be really short (capacitive) as noted below.

So, the model really needs the 1/4 wave tuning system in order to show the proper resonance.

At this point my idea for this matcher added to the model does not fix the problem and the skewing noted for the images in the manual (not to scale) leave me guessing about the specific dimensions for the tuner parts.

Can you give met the dimensions for the 5 plastic offset brackets?

Are the wire holes in the brackets about 1" apart?

The spacing between the wires is 1-3\8" and wire to boom spacing is 1-7/8". The flexable tuning wires are 12 guage not 13 like the element wires.
If you leave 4" between the tuner insulators and the DE and D1 it leaves about 47" of space for the tuning wires total. I plan to get the De and tuner in place latter today and will take a photo.

 

[Marconi]

The spacing between the wires is 1-3\8" and wire to boom spacing is 1-7/8". The flexable tuning wires are 12 guage not 13 like the element wires.
If you leave 4" between the tuner insulators and the DE and D1 it leaves about 47" of space for the tuning wires total. I plan to get the De and tuner in place latter today and will take a photo.

I assume that DE is the driven element, right?

What is the diameter of the brass part of the stub?

The brass part is said to be 18" inches less 1/4" for bending. What is the space between the plastic brackets that support the brass part? I don't find a dimension for this space and the image looks like the space is more than 18" inches so some of the wire is also between the first 2 plastic offset brackets. So I'm guessing there to be about 1" of wire inside these brackets as well as the brass part.

I'm getting only 137.175" inches of wire, and maybe 1" more, including the brass part out to the radiator and my wire #20 is 47" inches just like you note above. I can't account for the extra length you reported.

The image on page #7 of your manual looks like these two plastic end brackets should end up close to 4" inches inside of Dr and 4" inches inside of D1. My model agrees with your note above for the space between Dr and D1...which I have as 56" inches. 56 - 4 -4 = 48" inches and that is close to your note of 47" inches.

I hope this makes sense Dennis.

This said however, does not fix the match of my model, not even close. So I'll wait until you get the antenna built, and not bother you further with dimensions. My idea for a physical matcher for this design might not work at all as specified in the manual.

I attached a zoomed-in image below of the feeder I added to the model for the horizontal polarity only. I also added the dimensions used for the tuning stub wires including the overall length I get.

 

[dennis4040]

I assume that DE is the driven element, right?

What is the diameter of the brass part of the stub?
1/8"
The brass stub comes pre bent and is 18" long from bent end to center of wire eyelet.

The brass part is said to be 18" inches less 1/4" for bending. What is the space between the plastic brackets that support the brass part? I don't find a dimension for this space and the image looks like the space is more than 18" inches so some of the wire is also between the first 2 plastic offset brackets. So I'm guessing there to be about 1" of wire inside these brackets as well as the brass part.

I'm getting only 137.175" inches of wire, and maybe 1" more, including the brass part out to the radiator and my wire #20 is 47" inches just like you note above. I can't account for the extra length you reported.

The image on page #7 of your manual looks like these two plastic end brackets should end up close to 4" inches inside of Dr and 4" inches inside of D1. My model agrees with your note above for the space between Dr and D1...which I have as 56" inches. 56 - 4 -4 = 48" inches and that is close to your note of 47" inches.

I hope this makes sense Dennis.

This said however, does not fix the match of my model, not even close. So I'll wait until you get the antenna built, and not bother you further with dimensions. My idea for a physical matcher for this design might not work at all as specified in the manual.

I attached a zoomed-in image below of the feeder I added to the model for the horizontal polarity only. I also added the dimensions used for the tuning stub wires including the overall length I get.

What is the diameter of the brass part of the stub?
1/8"
The brass stub comes pre bent and is 18" long from bent end to center of wire eyelet.
I will post a photo of the drawing with some measurements I took today, I think will be better.

Let me know if I have missed anything I am not very organized.

It is assembled and I will post some bad photos and a screen shot of the analyzer sweep.

 

[dennis4040]

Some poor photos of the L4+ assembled and analyzer sweeps of vertical and horizontal. Just a starting point, I probably need to get it off the ground to get a better idea. The baluns are temporarily attached until I get an idea where they will be when properly tuned.

 

[dennis4040]

I assume that DE is the driven element, right?.

Yes

 

[Marconi]

Dennis I added four ? marks for areas the I would like to know the dimensions for.

I have a small 3.875" adjustment to add to my model based on the numbers you just posted, but when I add my current wires all together I get 137.207 inches. If I add the 3.875" adjustment I get 141" inches and that is right on with your numbers...if the wire length from the last insulator to the radiator is close to 70.8" inches.

What was the overall length of the wire including the brass rod you used
considering the 147.5" inches you posted earlier? Did you have to use all of the 147.5" inches?

I also added some of the penciled in dimensions you posted earlier to your image below just for your clarification to see if I got them right. That said, I assume the plastic wire insulators are approximately 2" x 2" inches, right?

If you see any thing that is not right let me know.

My model still does not match regardless of where I put the tap point on the 18" inch brass rod. If you're getting a workable match, where on the brass rod did you locate the tap for the horizontal polarity?

I probably have a problem with voltage fed models that I don't understand. I can select either current or voltage, but maybe I'm missing something else. The match on my model does improve the reactive match portion at the feed point some, but it is still showing a boat load of capacitance. The model acts like I have not added the inductor to the model.

I hope you can give us some good images of your analyzer when you get time. Are you using a flash on your camera?

I can see you're working hard. Thanks!

 

[dennis4040]

If you're getting a workable match, where on the brass rod did you locate the tap for the horizontal polarity?
I can see you're working hard. Thanks!

Yes I have been pushing pretty hard in between work.
Sorry I thought I posted these last night but I forgot them.
I tried 1kw real rf into the vertical side last night. Every 500 khz or so from 27 mhz to 29 mhz, swr less than 2:1.
What do you think about the sweeps, do i need to get it a few feet higher for initial adjustment?
The boom is 7' off ground.
I listened in to a 10m net last night and compared signals to my iMax which is 57' to base. The one signal that happened to be pretty close to the beam heading was equal to the iMax, everything else was down about 2 s units on the L4+. That is about as expected with it on the ground I think.
More to come later,

 

[Marconi]

Dennis, these look like SWR scans. Is one vertical and the other horizontal?

 

[dennis4040]

Yes they are labeled. What do you think?

 

[Marconi]

I'm impressed.

A little surprised though with the results for the CB band on the vertical side. Was a little of both worlds your goal when tuning?

 

[dennis4040]

I'm impressed.

A little surprised though with the results for the CB band on the vertical side. Was a little of both worlds your goal when tuning?

No, just dumb luck. Hope it hold up when in the air.
Do you think the baluns may be increasing the bandwidth, I think I have seen before when adding a balun.