New antenna from Sirio Gain-Master

[Henry HPSD]

Guys,

some eznec compariment...
As now, we are focusing on that briljant diagrams with angles at 0 degree...
That will never happen only under "perfect" conditions..seawater comes close to that.


The conclusion is ...
The difference between a 5/8 wave and a 0.64 wave is equal to changing the diamter from say 25mm to 1 mm. Wich is of significant importance as some 0,64 wl antennas are 1mm thick while others are made out of aluminium tubing.
Therefor the aluminium tubing versions can be slightly lower.
That slightly lower is approximently equal to the difference in gain wich can be seen as changing from a 0,64 wl to a 5/8 wavelenght...
What im saying is...its not really a big deal...

Futher more you notice with the longer version (5/8 wave, 0,64 wl) that the second lob is much larger than wicht the smaller ones. This will provide a big plus running that continental Dx. (sproadic E).
It can have a bad impact aswell...as that continental DX becomes "lokal" qrm for Real DX. station migth be heard on a smaller antenna instead of the longer ones.

Now, all that is done is i used 1 meter above ground and 10 meter above ground...
The funny thing is that at approximently 5..6 meters above ground (15..17 feet).
Some patterns really have a disadvantage..say a half wave vertical is better of for real dx at 1 meter (3 feet) above ground than at 5 or 6 meters. (15..17 feet)

Hope it is of use..

Regards,

Henry

 

[Kamikaze]

Nice information.

Now for all those multibanded people out there what happens when we use the .64 cut for CB wave on 10 meters verses something 5/8 wave?

So if we cut the radiator for 5/8 on the highest part of 10 meters we will use so it won't produce a new high angle lobe what happens to the gain on 11 verses a 5/8 there?

Just thinking out loud.

 

[Shockwave]

Both Henry and Jazz have hit the nail on the head. This is a difference that is indistinguishable in nearly every case. How are you going to notice if 5% more power went up at a 45 degree angle in the .64 wave secondary lobe? They sure sold a lot more CB antennas due to marketing of the .64 wave name on 11 meters then they would if they made the antenna either a 5/8 wave or a .64 wave and left it up to the consumer to decide which was better.

 

[Oggy]

Well I got the Gain Master up on the mast Yesterday between rain showers and this evening made contact with a couple of locals.
I had a heck of a time convincing them that I wasn't running any power and the it was a bare foot base station. Both of the other station were running in the 500 watts area. I told them I had a Galaxy DX 2547 that was bone stock out of the box and not super tuned.
My meters show 4 watts am and about 12 SSB.
Then I told them about the Gain Master, they both came to the conclusion that it was the antenna that was making the differance.
Now I realize this is not a scientific comparison and more of a testimonial.
But there are to CBers in my home town that will tell you what I already knew.
This antenna kicks butt.

Well beat me with a muddy Stick..............thats what I found in November.......yes the antenna does kick Butt for sure.......hello all Dave M0OGY UK.

 

[Marconi]

Well OkieBob, I've tested all the antennas I have except my Wolf 50_11M, and the Wolf .64, both are broke, and I've NOT found anything to beat it yet. My A99 and my I-10K match the GM on averaging reports. I only did one test report on the I-10K, and three test on the A99, so better numbers might be expected with a bigger sampling.

Regardless of the increase in price, the GM has a really great Bandwidth, shows absoutely NO TVI on either mount at my location, makes a signal equal or better than all most all the others tested, requires no tuning, is a breeze to install and build, really looks strong enough to last, and IMO is the best vertical CB antenna I've ever owned.

I recommend it, in all situations.

 

[Shockwave]

There is no doubt the GM is a fantastic antenna. It provides gain on the horizon that rivals that of much larger and heavier antennas. It's assembly is a snap and with the pictures you can have it together in 10 or 15 minuets. With no tuning required it has the best VSWR bandwidth of any antenna easily covering all of 10 and 11 meters amazingly well with no RFI.

If you are installing the GM in precarious locations, you will be glad you picked this one. It's so light in comparison to anything comparable, you'll think you're just holding the mast without the antenna on it. Yet it's construction give no signs of being flimsy with that triple wall fiberglass radome. I never worry about weather anymore and I've lost antennas in conditions the GM has already survived.

I recommend it in all 10 and 11 meter applications where a omnidirectional antenna is desired or required. The only exception that should not be overlooking is the power level being used. Don't try putting 1 KW PEP into the thing and be surprised if the cap arcs.

 

[Shockwave]

No sooner did I make that post and we have gusts of 50 MPH. I should have looked at the post number first. I'm betting the antenna will hold up fine.

 

[Henry HPSD]

Shockwave,

Will you work for me? I need someone who can advertise like you!, (joking m8..)
But do have the feeling its a bit "optimistic".


No, the antenna will not produce a gain on the horizon that rivals that of much heavier etc..

If you are refering to the diagram on the sirio site, you must realise that isnt true.
As there isnt a single antenna in the world who will produce a 0 angle degree TOA.

No, the antenna can still have RFI.
A rfchoke at the bottum isnt a "certain" thing that it will prevent all commen mode currents.
Look at it as a seat belt..though it is a safty factor..you can still get damaged.

And dont forget those stories about the antenna breaking with just using a KLV200 (thats far from 1KW)
and why would it be that on the second hand market in Germany there are already more SG for sale then there are A99 or Imax antennas... (source: simon the wizard).

Dont get me wrong..im not against this antenna, but would give some downsides aswell.

Regards,

Henry
All about antennas

 

[Marconi]

I know you guys have no confidence in Exnec5 modeling, and for sure what I do with it, but here is all I have as evidence of what I imagine might be going on with the TOA for the Gain Master vs. Sigma4 vs. I-10K as a comparison.

I did free space and over real Earth views, and I show the I-10K both with and without the mast. I can't add the mast to the Gain Master without messing it up very badly, so I left the mast off of all three models.

I wrote below each antenna view the Average Gain figures that attempt to evaluate some accuracy within the Eznec program itself, a self test. As I understand the AG test, the lower the number the better and a - value is better than a + value.

View attachment Modeling Gain Master vs. Sigma4 vs, I-10K.pdf

Henry gives us his idea of the gain and TOA here, but something has to be affecting the Gain Master that makes it perform so well. I would like to see some more evidence that the Germans are all getting ride of their Gain Masters. Wizdord is angry with me for stealing his image of his burned up GM, but maybe he will confirm or deny this claim for the rest of the gang.

 

[MrSuburban]

I know you guys have no confidence in Exnec5 modeling, and for sure what I do with it, but here is all I have as evidence of what I imagine might be going on with the TOA for the Gain Master vs. Sigma4 vs. I-10K as a comparison.

I did free space and over real Earth views, and I show the I-10K both with and without the mast. I can't add the mast to the Gain Master without messing it up very badly, so I left the mast off of all three models.

I wrote below each antenna view the Average Gain figures that attempt to evaluate some accuracy within the Eznec program itself, a self test. As I understand the AG test, the lower the number the better and a - value is better than a + value.

View attachment 4193

Henry gives us his idea of the gain and TOA here, but something has to be affecting the Gain Master that makes it perform so well. I would like to see some more evidence that the Germans are all getting ride of their Gain Masters. Wizdord is angry with me for stealing his image of his burned up GM, but maybe he will confirm or deny this claim for the rest of the gang.

Eddie I still have faith in Eznec as long as things are input correctly. Your models look good are they ones that you made?

 

[Shockwave]

Shockwave,

Will you work for me? I need someone who can advertise like you!, (joking m8..)
But do have the feeling its a bit "optimistic".


No, the antenna will not produce a gain on the horizon that rivals that of much heavier etc..

If you are refering to the diagram on the sirio site, you must realise that isnt true.
As there isnt a single antenna in the world who will produce a 0 angle degree TOA.

No, the antenna can still have RFI.
A rfchoke at the bottum isnt a "certain" thing that it will prevent all commen mode currents.
Look at it as a seat belt..though it is a safty factor..you can still get damaged.

And dont forget those stories about the antenna breaking with just using a KLV200 (thats far from 1KW)
and why would it be that on the second hand market in Germany there are already more SG for sale then there are A99 or Imax antennas... (source: simon the wizard).

Dont get me wrong..im not against this antenna, but would give some downsides aswell.

Regards,

Henry
All about antennas

Hello Henry, Normally I would agree it's impossible for the smaller, lighter antenna to rival the performance of a bigger one. You have to remember I've had 4 antennas on the same mount and coax in the last 2 years. First was a metal 5/8 wave with ground radials. Stock and modified Vector 4000. Now the Gain-Master. All of the prior antennas were larger and heavier yet none produced more detectable signal 50 miles away. That's how I judged the gain on the horizon.

Prior to the GM I could never keep my PC speakers turned on in the radio room while I was talking. I can no longer get RF into my PC speakers with the GM. That choke doesn't just isolate the coax from radiating, it does the same thing to the mast and it's a very significant improvement. Granted it's not an infinite impedance at 28 MHz but it removed any trace of RFI in my installation.

With respect to the one tube EL-509 in a KLV200, I can't replicate anything remotely similar to that circumstance with the GM. Being that I had an interest in learning everything about this antenna, I know exactly what it took to burn mine up. The FL-2100B (two 572B's) arced the cap in my first cable testing on 28.390 right around 700 watts PEP. I now keep my ALC set to clamp the output just under 500 watts PEP with no issues in any weather.

I felt like my description was the result of being impressed more so then being optimistic. Had I been in advertising I would never mention not to apply the "rated" PEP into the product and only mention the good points. I found one down side and disclosed it to prevent others from using it in the wrong application.

 

[Henry HPSD]

Hello Guys:

@shockwave..
tnx reply, i understand your point of view.

@marconi:
Dont know who you are refering to with no faith in Eznec and dont really care..
..its just typical.
Everyone in the world uses the Nec engine to calculate antennas.
The military, Broadcast etc.. but somehow ther are "some guys"on this CB forum who...have no confidence? in the programm?

As earlier metioned, the programm has its limitations but that is clearly stated.
It would be the same to ask a dog to fly. Somethings just cant be done.
However, eznec is more than suitable for what we do.

I did see your attachment, but sadly i couldnt read the average gain values.
Why would you think the - figure is of a better value then a + sign?
and perhaps i misjudge but there seems to be some "freespace" indication there where it "real live" concerns.

The claim of Simon doesnt really need to be confirmed personal by him, as it is stated on that charly tango forum. (your active there aswell)
And even on this forum he mentions: there are more and more 2nd hand for sale

To bad, you think Simon is angry with you..
All i know that i was quite impressed with his honesty and uprigth Radio spirit.

When i was in Afghanistan as 234SD0 i brougth a icom ic706 along with to make some Dx on 27mhz..after all 234 div is a nice DX!
But the ic706 had some problems mic problems..(too much sand lol).
Now without knowing who i was, Simon send a RCI2950 towards me!
Without speaking about prices etc...THATS ham spirit!
Ofcourse i wanted and have paid for it..though that wasnt easy lol..
Its a gentlemen for sure.

Back towards that sirio gainmaster..I did not gave a indication about gain..
All i did was to mention that it is impossible to produce a 0 degree toa in real life.
There for i find the "average gain" figures of sirio misleading.
They are made up in "freespace". My 3 foot mobile antenna will show a 0 degree radiation angle in freespace.. Now, with that said...will my 3 foot mobile outperform a 5/8 wave? Though that is how they advertise the additional gain above a "normal" 5/8 wave.

Take care, enjoy the weekend!

Henry

 

[Marconi]

Eddie I still have faith in Eznec as long as things are input correctly. Your models look good are they ones that you made?

Well the Sigma4 is one I modified from Henry and I think it was originally done by Dxer, but only Henry would know. The 5/8 wave and the I-10K I made from scratch. The only models I've ever received from others either came with the software or were sent by Henry, or CTStallion. I've asked other's for their models, but got nothing.

Hey MrS, I sent you a couple of models at your request I think. With your request, didn't you comment that we could exchange models and maybe learn something together? What happened to that promise, or am I mistaken?

I comment further that I do not claim my models or Eznec5 models to be correct or accurate or not. I note however, that my models seem to suggest almost identically patterns as Sirio suggested in their manual with the GainMaster representing the free space patterns for 5/8 standard and the 5/8 wave center fed Gain Master. Of course I can't produce the nice colored current distribution image that Sorio's software does.

 

[HomerBB]

Uh, Ohh

. . . Back towards that sirio gainmaster..I did not gave a indication about gain..
All i did was to mention that it is impossible to produce a 0 degree toa in real life.
There for i find the "average gain" figures of sirio misleading.

Everybody here has to say Sirio is the only manufacturer who doesn't mislead. That's the antenna gunslinger consensus. :w00t:

 

[Henry HPSD]

Homber,

yeah, lol.. if noticed that too..but am afraid the others or inaccurate.

I didnt say by the way that it isnt true..it is misleading... for the reason mentioned.
The "freespace" pattern of a end fed 5/8 wave has a disadvantege at 0 degree angle. They are taking advantege of that.
Thats not fair. You cant say :a Landrover drives faster than a ferrari simply cause you test it in a swamp. Nobody drives a car in a swamp... (at least not here..you get the point).


There is other misleading information from sirio, information wich certainly is not true.
Take for instance the 4el yagi:

SY 27-4: 11 dBd, 13.15 dBi

That wont happen...on a approx 12 feet boom.
Around 8dBI or 9dBi would be more accurate so thats atleast 4 dBI of lies.
So yes, they do mislead...

However, i also have to mention there are quite some antennas from sirio who have a honest gain figure.


Take care!

Henry