Noise difference on SSB vs AM

[TXRiverRat]

Just getting back into CBing , after almost 50 years, since early '70s. Use to be just a mobile user with a Realistic TRC 448, 40 chl, and talked "skip" all over, from down in the Alamo City.
Now I'm using a mobile Galaxy DX959 as a base station with a Proton 99 antenna and a
Twinpoint B-100 SATURN 39" low profile base antenna. Both antennas are mounted aprox 28'-32' high.

I never really got into SSB back in the 70's before I was transferred overseas in the military. Now I am trying a little SSB. My concern is the difference in the noise level on LSB/USB vs AM. When using my PROTON 99, I am use to the regular type of noise while on AM, but when I switch to LSB or USB I get a loud "crackly" noise (almost like snap, crackle, pop). Almost like an engine/motor running; but nothing is running, and it is on all channels. Switch back to AM and it's just the regular channel static noise. But when I'm using my SATURN B-100, the noise is basically just the regular channel sound. I can hear a slight crackly noise, but very slight.

I'm wondering, if it might be from where I've run my RG58 cable thru the outside wall into my house. My cable goes thru the wall, about 2' from where the main elec power comes up from the ground and into to outside pwr box.

Any ideas?

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I have been running SSB almost exclusively for over 40 years. Noise on SSB does sound different than on AM. When "skip" is running AM is straight nothing but noise with a high signal strength that remains fairly constant. Switching to SSB often sees the meter drop way down and the noise changes. Part of the difference is that SSB filters are typically half as wide as AM filters and that alone will affect the sound. I would however investigate a bit more about possible noise on the powerline since you have it on all channels and that your coax is so close to the power entrance.

 

[Handy Andy]

​

Welcome to the Forum!

SSB mode versus AM on any antenna will show that antennas' performance.

When you mentioned you used a Mobile antenna and the SSB reception was more like AM - you are seeing a performance "hit" from the use of a less than ideal antenna for your conditions.

When you use the dedicated Base antenna - yes, beyond a doubt - you WILL HEAR far more noise.

Now if that noise is being injected along the run from the antenna to the house because of leaky coax, well, you can try to mitigate it by simply using a more dedicated 50-ohm coax more dedicated to your best Base setup. By symptoms alone I cannot say that you have poorly shielded coax or even the entry is causing this.

That requires a swapping of coax, to what type of FEEDLINE - that is up to you - just be sure to use 50-ohm impedance if you can, just for simplicity.

 

[TXRiverRat]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I have been running SSB almost exclusively for over 40 years. Noise on SSB does sound different than on AM. When "skip" is running AM is straight nothing but noise with a high signal strength that remains fairly constant. Switching to SSB often sees the meter drop way down and the noise changes. Part of the difference is that SSB filters are typically half as wide as AM filters and that alone will affect the sound. I would however investigate a bit more about possible noise on the powerline since you have it on all channels and that your coax is so close to the power entrance.

Thanks,

Switching between AM - SSB, the S-meter stays about the same, but the receive noise goes crackly and it is hard the pick out the talking; and the clarifier does not adjust out any of the crackling noise.

 

[undertaker]

The clairifier will not take out any noise it is used to tune in other ssb signals..


And Welcome to the forum!!!

 

[TXRiverRat]

View attachment 33823​

Welcome to the Forum!

SSB mode versus AM on any antenna will show that antennas' performance.

When you mentioned you used a Mobile antenna and the SSB reception was more like AM - you are seeing a performance "hit" from the use of a less than ideal antenna for your conditions.

When you use the dedicated Base antenna - yes, beyond a doubt - you WILL HEAR far more noise.

Now if that noise is being injected along the run from the antenna to the house because of leaky coax, well, you can try to mitigate it by simply using a more dedicated 50-ohm coax more dedicated to your best Base setup. By symptoms alone I cannot say that you have poorly shielded coax or even the entry is causing this.

That requires a swapping of coax, to what type of FEEDLINE - that is up to you - just be sure to use 50-ohm impedance if you can, just for simplicity.

I am using a Mobile radio, but both of my antennas are Base antennas. A ProComm Proton PT99 (like Anton 99), a 18', four section fiberglass Commercial CB Base Station Antenna. It is mounted on a 12' metal mast , mounted on the side of my house, top height is at about 32'. The other antenna is a Twinpoint SATURN B-100, 39" fiberglass, low profile Base antenna; mounted on a 6' metal mast, mounted approx 17' up in a tree with a total hgt of approx 26'. Both antennas have good SWR, and fairly good RX & TX.

My major concern is the extreme crackling noise on SSB compared to AM.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

I am using a Mobile radio, but both of my antennas are Base antennas. A ProComm Proton PT99 (like Anton 99), a 18', four section fiberglass Commercial CB Base Station Antenna. It is mounted on a 12' metal mast , mounted on the side of my house, top height is at about 32'. The other antenna is a Twinpoint SATURN B-100, 39" fiberglass, low profile Base antenna; mounted on a 6' metal mast, mounted approx 17' up in a tree with a total hgt of approx 26'. Both antennas have good SWR, and fairly good RX & TX.

My major concern is the extreme crackling noise on SSB compared to AM.

Any way you can post an audio recording of it in AM and SSB modes? A smartphone is useful and can be uploaded to youtube or something.

 

[Redbeard U812]

TXRiverRat, welcome.

Down here along the Mid-Coast TX, nice way of saying Port Lavaca, we have some heavy transmission lines, two sets running north and south. I'm in the middle.

Higher humidity effects the noise ratio here. My SSB static is significantly higher than AM. I have had to go to great lengths to ground everything multiple places. It helped, but that RF hash is always there. Sometimes unbearable when high humidity or fog present.

The two transmission lines have gotten some attention this past year improving the noise threshold. Have some transformers behind me which are quite old and questionable.

I would take Capt's and Andy's advise and start there. The close proximity of your coax to power supply could be culprit, although may not be effecting, if there are leaks in shielding of coax it's possible.

 

[sp5it]

Any ideas?

PT99 is end-fed antenna and coax and mast is the part of the antenna. Pick up all the noise. There are 2 ways to improve. 1. Trash that junk and put decent aluminium antenna. 2. Isolate antenna from mast, make choke balun directly under antenna and another where coax enters the house. It should cancel a lot of noise.
Mike

 

[Slowmover]

PT99 is end-fed antenna and coax and mast is the part of the antenna. Pick up all the noise. There are 2 ways to improve. 1. Trash that junk and put decent aluminium antenna. 2. Isolate antenna from mast, make choke balun directly under antenna and another where coax enters the house. It should cancel a lot of noise.
Mike

With respect, it’s what I would try. Since I already have (17) antennas stacked around here, what’s a few more?

Then, on to No. 2 as above.

.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

PT99 is end-fed antenna and coax and mast is the part of the antenna. Pick up all the noise. There are 2 ways to improve. 1. Trash that junk and put decent aluminium antenna. 2. Isolate antenna from mast, make choke balun directly under antenna and another where coax enters the house. It should cancel a lot of noise.
Mike

Good point. I missed that about the antenna type.

 

[Tokin]

It could be the 959. I had a couple about 5 years ago and found out the hard way that Galaxy really cheaped out on parts for that model. If you open it up you will see the pots are all very small. I lived where it got cold and my 959s would drift real bad till they warmed up. I finally went back to rci radios and havent had any more issues.

 

[TXRiverRat]

TXRiverRat, welcome.

Down here along the Mid-Coast TX, nice way of saying Port Lavaca, we have some heavy transmission lines, two sets running north and south. I'm in the middle.

Higher humidity effects the noise ratio here. My SSB static is significantly higher than AM. I have had to go to great lengths to ground everything multiple places. It helped, but that RF hash is always there. Sometimes unbearable when high humidity or fog present.

The two transmission lines have gotten some attention this past year improving the noise threshold. Have some transformers behind me which are quite old and questionable.

I would take Capt's and Andy's advise and start there. The close proximity of your coax to power supply could be culprit, although may not be effecting, if there are leaks in shielding of coax it's possible.

Good point. I missed that about the antenna type.

It could be the 959. I had a couple about 5 years ago and found out the hard way that Galaxy really cheaped out on parts for that model. If you open it up you will see the pots are all very small. I lived where it got cold and my 959s would drift real bad till they warmed up. I finally went back to rci radios and havent had any more issues.

Thanks for the ideas,

This is a New Galaxy DX959, (with a SSB upgarde peak & tune service) MFD date 6/2019 and placed in service 10/2019. I have heard of the many problems with this model's SSB drifting when the unit is cold. My radio is on 12-14 hrs/day so I am pretty sure it is "warmed up". I saw many many reviews of this radio and Protron PT99 antenna system before I purchased them. I watched several Youtube videos of installation of the PT99 antenna; and I don't remember seeing any of the installations showing or suggesting installing any "balum chokes" on the linefeed for this antenna. And I don't remember reading any reviews of the antenna saying that a choke is suggested or required for installation in any particular location. So I am at a loss.

I currently have a large "choke" installed on my washing machine power line, because I had an extreme "agitator swishing" noise on an old radio that I was using before I purchased my new radio. I requested help from this forum earlier pertaining to the washing machine agitator noise, and it was suggested by a couple people to install the choke on the machine power cord. WELL, IMHO I think that was completely useless. I still had just as strong of a swishing noise as I had before installing the coil. I bought the new radio and the noise is still there but quite a bit less noticeable. I perceive that to be because the newer radio has much better internal filters than the old 1973 model radio.

I am currently considering that my crackling noise problem is more related to the fact that my linefeed into the house is too close to the underground elec power lines coming into the house. When I change my linefeed to a better quality coax cable, I will also attempt to find a better place to run the coax thru the exterior wall. Hopefully that might eliminate some of the crackling interference.

 

[sp5it]

This is a New Galaxy DX959, (with a SSB upgarde peak & tune service) .

 

[Slowmover]

The owner at Clays Radio Shop (San Antonio, E-IH10 at Ackermann Road across from the Petro; just outside IH410 Loop) is a fine man to talk with. I’ve dealt with him over twenty years.

If convenient, stop by during the week to talk with him. Set a time. Stop by for lunch at Mi Tierra (with pics of your meal, irritate Redbeard, Riverman, me, Eldorado and other Texans not there to join in), and try Clay on for size. He’s got a very good quality of tech knowledge and person -ability.

Not suggested as substitute for what you glean from here. But he does sell CB base antennas and power supplies. Definite opinions as any retailer doesn’t want customers coming back with unsolved problems.

He’s the kind of guy your Daddy told you to trade with.

Note the Hamfest thread at Rosenberg (Houston). March 7. That’s SW of the city on 59. You can sneak in the back way.

Now, as an aside I think most others here can appreciate . . if nothing else, life has taught us to refine the, “don’t ask a dummy like me”, facial expression.
Neutrally dull?
Eddie Askance?

You can cruise thru the Hamfest clutching a paper sack of 1” 3/8-24 steel nuts you bought at Lowe’s. You’re at the ‘fest (raise bag) to pick up what your uncle wanted.

Or, hell, you’re retired chief of sales at a defense electronics firm. Whatever.

Get out in retirement and have the fun the rest of wish for. All the other Texans know, oh, maybe a dozen or thirty driving routes to make those two stops worth the gasoline cost alone. (Points deducted for using the Interstate. 190 Toll approved). Ha!

.