question about the FCC's description of a "cb transmitter"

[cyclops1970]

When the jumper in my Ranger 2950DX is moved to allow more than 10/12m operation it also enables the MAN button to access a band that shows up on the display as CH1-40 including the "a" channels. Now tell me that was not intentionally meant to be used as a CB radio.

I can mod out my Kenwood 450 and program channels 1-28 in memory slots...does that make it a CB as well? Or even better take an old low-band Motorola and reprogram it. Is it a CB?

It wasn't that long ago that Ranger advertised in such "popular" CB rags such as QST and CQ. I can remember when they were sold by such CB outles as AES and HRO. And the Ranger radios have been reviewed and tested by the ARRL lab. Their conclusion: not the best in the world, but a good start for the new 10M or 6M enthusiast.

 

[dudmuck]

good replies.
Somebody could take an icom-706 or ft-857d, etc. Do the mars/cap mod, program the memories with CB channels (CH1 = 26.965, etc), and then it becomes a CB radio.

A little bit of history for perspective.
CB radio service on 27MHz was created 50 years ago.
Technology was quite a bit different back then.
There were no PLL frequency synthesizers, only crystals, and they were expensive.
I doubt anybody thought there would be such a thing as freebanding back then because none of the CB radios had VFO, only crystals.
Also, there were no "pills" back in 1958. Power amplifiers were relatively rare, and expensive tube models.
Today, PLL circuits are cheap and work well. Freebanding is easy.
Commonly available transistors of today (such as 2sc2879) make running big watts relatively simple compared to when the CB service was created.

Technology has moved forward in a way that nobody could have predicted 50 years ago, and that's a big reason why this situation exists today. I think GMRS/FRS represents the original intention of CB back in 1958, yet the technology to implement it didn't exists at that time. 27MHz was the only viable spectrum to be used for CB given the tube technology of the time.

So now we are left with vague laws to determine what is a CB and whats not. End the end its arbitrarily what the FCC says is a CB.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

I can mod out my Kenwood 450 and program channels 1-28 in memory slots...does that make it a CB as well? Or even better take an old low-band Motorola and reprogram it. Is it a CB?

It wasn't that long ago that Ranger advertised in such "popular" CB rags such as QST and CQ. I can remember when they were sold by such CB outles as AES and HRO. And the Ranger radios have been reviewed and tested by the ARRL lab. Their conclusion: not the best in the world, but a good start for the new 10M or 6M enthusiast.

good replies.
Somebody could take an icom-706 or ft-857d, etc. Do the mars/cap mod, program the memories with CB channels (CH1 = 26.965, etc), and then it becomes a CB radio.

Both of you guys missed the point. Since the 2950DX comes straight from the factory with the ability to display CB channels already programmed into it's software it is pretty much proof that one of the intentions of the manufacturer was for it to operate on CB channels as a CB.As for labeling the memories in a ham radio,that is something that you have to do yourself. It is not written into the radio's software to display CH-19 everytime the radio is tuned to 27.185.


Dudmuck wrote:

"So now we are left with vague laws to determine what is a CB and whats not. End the end its arbitrarily what the FCC says is a CB. "

What's so vague about it? It looks pretty much spelled out with the "list" the FCC has on what it considers illegal radios. The problem is that people just do not want to hear it.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

It wasn't that long ago that Ranger advertised in such "popular" CB rags such as QST and CQ. I can remember when they were sold by such CB outles as AES and HRO. And the Ranger radios have been reviewed and tested by the ARRL lab. Their conclusion: not the best in the world, but a good start for the new 10M or 6M enthusiast.

I am confused. No really. Are you trying to be sarcastic or what? QST? CQ? AES? HRO? CB related companies? :blink:

BTW the Ranger 6m radio could not be modified to operate out of band at all and one model of the 2950DX could not be modded for out of band either.Those were the ones sold in the ham shops. Many a CB'er got burned when they thought they could modify their new purchase only to find it was not possible.

 

[C W Morse]

When you have a radio that LOOKS like a CB, has chrome faces and rebel flags, has "bands" of "channels" (channels have NOTHING whatsoever to do with amateur radio), are SOLD in truck stops and CB shops, PROMOTED TO CBers as having FAR more watts than the 4 allowed, BRAG on having 160, 200, 280, 320 "channels", NOBODY is being fooled by the charade:angry: OR the lettering that is put on the phony "amateur" radios---Least OF ALL FCC!!!:thumbdown: Most ALL radios can be made to do things they are not intended to do. The reasons for the liberal parameters allowed for the REAL amateur radios is that FOR THE MOST PART, THE AMATEURS HAVE PROVEN TO BE RELIABLE, PROVEN RESOURCES AND, UNLIKE THE OUTLAW MINIONS OF CB, GENERALLY BEHAVE THEMSELVES! Two examples of this are MARS (Military Affiliate Radio System) and members of the Civil Air Patrol who may nor may NOT be amateur radio operators. CAP members operate under completely MILITARY authority, and until recently, often used Amateur radio equipment extensively. Often amateur sets such as the Icom 706 were routinely modified to operate on CAP frequencies according to the parameters set by US Air Force, NOT by FCC. This was done because of expense that would be incurred IF CAP members were forced to buy military (NTIA-compliant) equipment. They are volunteers (as are MARS members) and cannot afford to pay $2500+ for HF and VHF equipment.

Therefore, it matters not that a relatively small group of operationally non-essential (CB) operators who, unfortunately, show a penchant for ignoring regulations want to have these outlaw radios (10 Meter) proliferate unabated. It matters that there IS an agency that, thankfully, DOES make such distinctions and draw lines as to what equipment may or may not be used for CB----OR be allowed to filch frequencies from legitimate, legally authorized licensees!!!!:angry: Sure, those that don't LIKE the idea of having their precious and ILLEGAL "10 Meter" (and junky) radios banned, criticized, and FINED are going to try to find every excuse to cry "UNFAIR", and "FOUL" and ask why REAL amateur radios don't suffer sanction from FCC. The REAL amateur radios AND their ability to be modified according to the RULES of the service into which they are usually put serve a legitimate and proven purpose! It is relatively RARE to find a ham radio that has been put into a use afoul of its actual purpose by a ham! It is more likely that a ham radio will be found misused by---------some outlaw CBer!!!

Perhaps, the answer is to be found in a MIRROR!!!!!:drool: For quite a few years, FCC was asleep. IF the export builders had fixed the so-called "10 Meter" junk so that once they had been modded to work on CB, they would NO LONGER work on 10 Meters, the FCC might not have awakened. They really didn't WANT to have to enforce CB radio!!! But NOOOOOOOOO! The CB outlaws wanted ALL them thar channels and all them thar "bands" that belonged to someone ELSE!!!!!!!:thumbdown: So they not only went into the non-existant "freeband", they figured that the actual 10 Meter band was fair game as well. And being ignorant of any such thing as licensing, band plans, and agreements, they plopped their butts right smack dab onto the CW sub-band. After all, them beeps and blops were 'just noise' right? Being that the amateurs DO have a bit of pull via ARRL and many FCC engineers ARE hams anyway, the Feds woke UP and said, "Oh no, h--- you DON'T!" The result was a bunch of P----ed off hams AND an awakened FCC!!!!!!!!! AND a bunch of dealers getting their butts kicked via FINES, CB operators crying about the $10,000 fines they got!

I don't mean to be unkind, but like most hams, finding some unlicensed, ignorant clown ON the ham bands makes me FURIOUS!!!!!!!!!! They have ALL of the CB band to play free (mostly) from rules and tests; they are not welcome to come onto other turf! They have the privilege of doing the SAME things *I* did by taking the TESTS, and FOLLOWING the same rules I do!!!! So I don't like the outlaw stuff OR the illegal radios that make it possible for the rambos to show up on 10 Meters. If I offend, I am sorry. It's how I feel!!~!!


CWM

 

[cyclops1970]

BTW the Ranger 6m radio could not be modified to operate out of band at all and one model of the 2950DX could not be modded for out of band either.

So if one model of the 2950DX could not be modded for out of band....then why are all 2950s on the FCC blacklist???

An excellent example of the point I'm trying to make!!!

 

[todt061458]

So CWM why not tell us what you really think?

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

So if one model of the 2950DX could not be modded for out of band....then why are all 2950s on the FCC blacklist???

An excellent example of the point I'm trying to make!!!

Because they were all model 2950DX's. There was a change to the CPU inside that was not able to be distinguished by model number from the manufacturer.The boxes came with a differant colored dot on them. For instance a box with a "blue" sticky dot on it contained a radio that could be modded while a box with a yellow dot contained a radio that could not.

 

[C W Morse]

So CWM why not tell us what you really think?

I just did!! If the goofs had stayed OUT of the ham bands, stayed ON 27 MHZ---even going just a bit above into the so-called "freeband",------- a reluctant FCC might have not even yawned about it. Even with the radios being illegal, even with the "bands of channels", even with the extra power they have, I'd bet we wouldn't even be having these threads.


CWM

 

[cyclops1970]

Because they were all model 2950DX's. There was a change to the CPU inside that was not able to be distinguished by model number from the manufacturer.The boxes came with a differant colored dot on them. For instance a box with a "blue" sticky dot on it contained a radio that could be modded while a box with a yellow dot contained a radio that could not.

Ok, so will you agree that "yellow dot" radios ARE NOT "CB transmitters" as defined by the FCC?

If you do cede that point, then how do we know that someone hasn't got a citation for selling a "CB transmitter" when in reality, the radio has no possible way of being a CB transmitter??

I'm not one to apply Constitutional law to FCC rules (most of the time it doesn't apply), but that seems to me a pretty obvious violation of the Equal Protection clause...

 

[loosecannon]

CWM, by your line of reasoning, one can conclude that giving condoms to teens is what makes them decide to have sex.
by your reasoning, we should not make cars that go over 65 mph because many, many drivers go faster than that even though they are not supposed to.
maybe we should outlaw guns because many, many people use them to do illegal things.

stop blaming the radios!!!

you know for a fact that your beef is with the people who misuse their radios.
direct your wrath at the people.
let the FCC deliver the fines to the people that get caught operating without a license on 10m, but dont take away the radios.

most every one of us has exceeded the posted speed limit at one time or another, and many of us have received a ticket for it, and paid our fines.

however, the government did not confiscate our cars under the guise that the vehicle in question had the ability to accelerate far beyond the posted interstate speed limits.

i think the FCC should lower the fines for unlicensed transmissions from individuals on ham bands to 500-1000 dollars and stop confiscating the radios.
this way the FCC might actually see some revenue from the citations they issue.LOL
and just like we all felt after we got a speeding ticket, we watch our speed because we know it can happen again.
(this is just me pontificating so dont flame me for it)



now, i started this thread to point out some interesting things in the wording of the FCC's statements, but it has evolved into something else that i find much more interesting.
that is the ebay side of all this.
no one seems to want to respond to this issue.
it seems like people are reading the first post and then just adding their 2 cents in without reading the rest of the posts.
please read all the posts if you want to respond.

so, anyone want to comment on what i brought up in regards to ebays "ham police"?


if it matters to anyone; i would never operate an export radio because i cant stand the noisy receivers in them.
the HR2510 and the AR3500 are the exceptions.
i got my ham license (technician class) in 1989 when i was 14 years old.
i tested for general that day, and passed the written part with a 90%. but missed the 13wpm code test by too many to pass. (yes, i had to learn morse code to get my ticket)

i let my license expire.
my opinion of hams comes from my years of listening to them, not from an unwillingness to get licensed myself.

i have met plenty of cool ham ops over the years, but i met them on the cb/freeband freqs. LOL

so, who wants to talk about ebay?
LC

 

[W5LZ]

'eBay'

Can be a good place to sell stuff, I'd be very skeptical about getting a bargain there. But, miracles do happen occasionally.
eBay is a privately owned 'company', offers no guarantees as to honesty, quality, legality of what is 'offered' there, or at least, not consistently. They can change their minds as often as they want to and can get away with.
Except in very few cases, a 'bargain' is more costly than the same thing bought at retail from a reputable dealer. And, if found to be defective in some way, it's now your 'defect', no practical recourse.
All of this is my opinion, certainly not provable fact. I'm happy with it, but you certainly do not have to be! I'll change my opinion the day after Hilary is declared a 'saint', and Obama enlists in the Marines. Maybe...
- 'Doc

 

[loosecannon]

w5lz,

sure, you have a point about what kinds of "bargains" are to be found on ebay.

however, when it comes to things like, oh, i dont know, old radio gear; a place like ebay is a godsend.

its like having a hamfest swap meet every day in the convenience of your own home.
the difference between ebay and the traditional ham swap meets is that you dont have some guy running around from table to table yelling, "dont sell him that linear!!! he's gonna misuse it!!!" and ruining everyone's good time.

(this is where i stop directing my post to W5LZ)

i really think its quite despicable for any ham to deprive a newcomer to the hobby of the exact same initiation they themselves received.

you guys all know what you've bought before/after you were licensed, what you've used to use to transmit with in the past, how much you learned from it, how much fun you had with it, why it brought you to the place you are now, and why you shouldnt be trying to take that away from the people who are just starting down that same path.

ok, thats all i wanted to say,
bark away,
LC

 

[W5LZ]

...woof woof...

 

[unit_399]

Where can I view the FCC's "LIST" of non type-accepted cb transmitters

- 399