SDR as first HF transceiver?

[Mikaelo]

Hi all,

I passed my Tech on the 5/17 and will take my General as soon as I'm listed in the Uls.

That being said, I'm looking to get my first HF radio and I'm considering a Flex-1500.

I program computers and develop embedded interface H/W and I/O systems for a living, programming both PCs and embedded micro controllers, so I'm quite at home with computers involving external communications though drivers etc. To be honest I'm probably more of a computer geek than EE, thus why the SDR angle caught my eye.

I also have not acquired any "knob turning habits" yet so the learning curve for me would be there whether I chose the PC based SDR vs. a traditional radio.

Do any of have any input on why I shouldn't go the way and start off with a traditional transceiver instead?

Before I started to look at the SDR, used FT-857 and FT-450's caught my eye.


Thanks

Mikael

 

[w9cll]

Honestly being a computer geek will have little help with an SDR but the Flex-1500 is a nice rig. I have talked to many of them on the air and they all sound good. If you have the $$ I say go for it.

 

[2RT307]

I agree, if you're geeky that will be a big help. I think the Flex rigs are much easier to set up than say, a Zeus. Local fella ran a 1300 and really liked it. I hear them on the air, and they sound fantastic. Interesting how you can shape all the filtering, too. I think it sounds like a good match for your skill level. And they hold their value in case you change your mind later. Congrats on Tech, and good luck with General!

73,
Brett

 

[928bolo]

Hi Mikael,

Sounds like you would enjoy the technical aspects of using the 1500 but you may be disappointed with the limited number of contacts you can make with 5 watts. Sure QRP can be fun but it can also be frustrating. I wouldn't recommend your 1st radio to be a QRP rig.

The 3000 would be a better choice. Of course it costs a lot more (used they go for about $1,200). I have owned the 3000 and the 5000. Fantastic receiver and filters. As my CW skills improved I had a tough time with the latency (the delay between the dit/dot from the paddle to when the radio keys and you hear the sidetone) I sold them both for this reason.

If your budget is the limiting factor then the FT-450 would be a good first radio.

 

[W5LZ]

There's basically two issues here. The first one is an SDR is not a 'simple' device to learn to operate. Doesn't matter if you're computer literate or not. You have to learn the ways and methods of an HF radio, which is not the same as with VHF/UHF radios. Different styles of doing things, different controls, etc.
If you are already familiar with HF radios, you still have to get used to using a computer and different 'methods' of doing the things you're already used to doing.
I'm not a big fan of SDRs. Primarily because it involves using a computer, which is just another 'point of failure' (or possible one). That's a personal thingy, certainly doesn't hold true for everyone.
The absolute most bestest advice I can think of, no matter what radio type you are thinking about, is to get your hands on one, sit in front of one, see which 'suits' you the best. That's also about the hardest thing to do, at least around here.
Good luck.
- 'Doc

(I 'learned' on a real-live old radio. They make sense to me. I also play with computers so they aren't a total mystery. I just don't want to mix the two. I hate 'menus', love knobs and buttons! Whoo-pee...)

 

[6meter]

I agree that a Flex 3000 would be a big improvement over the 1500. Yes you can make contacts with 5 watts but it will be a lot more frustrating. Especially if your first HF antennas are compromised as you learn to build and improve antennas.

With the Flex 3000 you are starting out with a rig you will be happier with for much longer then the 1500.

Being comfortable with / computer literate will help the learning curve on SDR setup and software related aspects.

Being reliant on a computer as pointed out in a previous post does add one more element to the mix. However many hams use a PC for logging and web browsing related to and during playing on HF.

However it is quicker to walk in sit down and fire up a traditional HF radio to check band conditions then it is to load SDR and bring up the Flex.

The FT450 is a nice little rig and a couple of local guys that I helped get licensed went with that model. The 450 is a lower initial price but the Flex 3000 will blow it away in performance.

 

[Mikaelo]

Thanks all for you inputs. I really appreciate the feed back as it will be a major purchase for me to set up everything.

While i have been weighting the loss of power against the 3000, the 3000 is simply not in my budget for my start up shack. If I go the way of a flex rig, it would have to be the 1500, or alternatively a traditional radio.

Maybe I have put to much value into the ability to "See" the signals in the SDR type setups as opposed to scan though the band audibly. Being new to the bands, it seem easier to find the sweet spots visually with a waterfall history than scanning the band. Whether this is true or not, I don't know yet and is something I'm sure would be of lesser value once I would get more familiar with how the bands reacts to the cycles etc.

All in all I'm exited in getting any radio, which ever one I chose. $700 to $800 would be my max for the radio, though if it includes an Antenna tuner, it would help as I will be starting with a single antenna that I would like to be able to use on multiple bands.

Maybe I'll get one of the softrock or similar relatively inexpensive receivers and pair it with a "knob" radio for TX.

If the radio also included 2m it would be a plus as the local clubs where I live all run 2m repeaters (I live in an area intersected by 3 ham clubs), as I currently only have a cheap HT (baofeng uv-82) that I can receive the repeaters on. Not sure i'll be able to reach all/any of them transmitting though as I still waiting for FCC to list me.

I may want to add that I'm interested in digital as well, if that is an issue for any suggested radios.

Thanks again for suggestions and your feedback.

Mikael

 

[2RT307]

I should have looked up the specs of the 1500. I thought it was the newer version of the 1300, not a QRP rig. You could always add an amplifier later, if you just *had* to have the SDR rig. Since you're also considering a regular HF rig, you can use HRD, and the free version is still out there. You can scan the band with the bandscope feature of HRD, and it does digital modes as well. So as long as you buy a rig with CAT, serial, or USB control (mid 80's and newer, I think) rig, you can play with all this stuff on a regular transceiver.

I think Bill Murray is doing his Caddy Shack character while narrating this video:
Ham Radio Deluxe - Bandscope - YouTube

73,
Brett

 

[928bolo]

There are several radios that can provide a signal so you can "see" the signals on your computer monitor. You need a radio that provides broadband IF Output. Used in combination with an SDR receiver (like Larry Phipps' LP-Pan Telepost Inc. Home Page) you can feed data to your computer and see the signals on your monitor.

This is an oversimplification of the set up but a VERY good alternative to the Flex radios.

One radio in your price range, that has this capability, is a used Kenwood TS-850. This is an old radio (mid 1990's) so you need to try it out to make sure it is working properly. The 850 is a good radio. I doesn't have DSP but is a solid rig with good filtering and CAT control (computer control).

Later if your budget allows you can upgrade the radio (Elecraft K3, Yaesu 950, 2000, 3000, 5000, Ten-Tec Orion II) and keep your SDR system.

Welcome to the hobby. Have fun.

 

[Mikaelo]

Any thoughts on the Alinco DX-SR9T?
I have never really looked at Alinco, so i don't know how the compare to the big 3
Seem to be a hybrid between SDR and traditional radio.

 

[Browningman]

Any thoughts on the Alinco DX-SR9T?
I have never really looked at Alinco, so i don't know how the compare to the big 3
Seem to be a hybrid between SDR and traditional radio.

Alinco's traditionally tends to be cheap pieces of junk with no factory support.

I think that a Chinese company bought Alinco for their designs and is producing knock off's - with no customer support for their previous offerings.

I would stand clear of anything with Alinco printed on it.

 

[w9cll]

Alinco's traditionally tends to be cheap pieces of junk with no factory support.

I think that a Chinese company bought Alinco for their designs and is producing knock off's - with no customer support for their previous offerings.

I would stand clear of anything with Alinco printed on it.

One man's opinion and here is another. I have an Alinco rig, not the SR9 but a two meter mobile for 25 years it is still working good and I carry it in my car as a backup rig.

I can't help on the SR9 but the SR8 is a decent radio, everyone I know that owns one has no about them.

 

[Browningman]

There are several radios that can provide a signal so you can "see" the signals on your computer monitor. You need a radio that provides broadband IF Output. Used in combination with an SDR receiver (like Larry Phipps' LP-Pan Telepost Inc. Home Page) you can feed data to your computer and see the signals on your monitor.

This is an oversimplification of the set up but a VERY good alternative to the Flex radios.

One radio in your price range, that has this capability, is a used Kenwood TS-850. This is an old radio (mid 1990's) so you need to try it out to make sure it is working properly. The 850 is a good radio. I doesn't have DSP but is a solid rig with good filtering and CAT control (computer control).

Later if your budget allows you can upgrade the radio (Elecraft K3, Yaesu 950, 2000, 3000, 5000, Ten-Tec Orion II) and keep your SDR system.

Welcome to the hobby. Have fun.

The only way the Kenwood 850 will have good filtering in it - is if you put it in it!

The Original Poster asked about Software Defined Radio and you responded with old technology..

The Flex radio system is not all that expensive, but it is not portable as in that you can grab the radio and go someplace and just hook up 12 volts and start operating in an emergency..

The Flex Radio is not the greatest thing since sliced bread, it does have a lot of shortcomings, but there are models that can operate from 1 MHz to 1000 Mhz with the right modules.
Its a software defined radio, to the purest it is not the same as a ham radio transceiver.
But, because there are no discrete components inside of a transceiver anymore and you don't have air capacitors etc - there is not much of a difference between a SDR and say a Kenwood 990 or a Kenwood 590...

A band scope is nice if you do contesting, but is not a necessary tool in actual operations - especially if you are going to work Ecom's;;;

Most people buys a radio so they can talk to their friends and the only purpose of buying something different is so they can brag what they have.

Does it work? Yes, Will it work for you? Probably - as long as you have a good antenna system and a lot of time to learn how to use it properly.

The Panadapter can allow you to see who else is operating on the band that has a similar radio or is connected to a system - since it is integrated to the internet. Again, another thing that is a disadvantage in a emergency situation.

Many people buys a Flex 5000 and then couples it to a SteppIR antenna.
Another good option, but impractical if you need to go mobile.

 

[Browningman]

One man's opinion and here is another. I have an Alinco rig, not the SR9 but a two meter mobile for 25 years it is still working good and I carry it in my car as a backup rig.

I can't help on the SR9 but the SR8 is a decent radio, everyone I know that owns one has no about them.

You aren't comparing Apples to Apples.

All you are supplying is an opinion.

As my lawyer said to me, everyone has an opinion, and like butt holes - they usually stink!

A 2 meter mobile is basically no different then a CB radio.
FM modulation into a repeater - where you are working the one local repeater doesn't tell us much if anything about rig performance.
And, if the radio busts, you are pretty much forced to throw it in the garbage and buy another one because other then a few select repair services - who are you going to get to fix it for you? And if the bill is more then $100.00 - you can apply that money towards a brand new Yaesu FT 1900 that retails for about $139.00 with a one year warranty, and is a more modern transceiver.

 

[w9cll]

You aren't comparing Apples to Apples.

All you are supplying is an opinion.

As are you. What makes your opinion more reliable then mine or anyone else? I was only offering that I actually own an Alinco, yes not the the same league but same mfg.