Sirio 5000 and Wilson 5000

[Tucker442]

Not sure if I posted this before but after reading what CB Radio Magazine said about how good the Sirio 5000 antenna worked I decided to buy one to replace my Wilson 5000 Mag mount. First off I noticed the Sirio was not as noisy and signal varied with speed of my Tahoe. Then I noticed that most of the time if I hear someone they didn't answer me. I used the Wilson mag mount with the RG-8X coax unscrewed the Wilson and installed the Sirio. Had to set the SWR on the Sirio got it to 1.2 to 1.3 all across the band but still not as much talk as the old Wilson 5000. Well after 3 weeks of almost no comebacks I changed back to the Wilson 5000, second key up I get an answer. Is the Sirio not ok?? Is the Sirio not compatible with the Wilson 5000 Mag mount?? Did I get a dud Sirio antenna,?? Not sure but my Wilson 5000 is back up top of my 98 Tahoe talking skip almost everyday, if I can hear them they answer me, that didn't happen with the Sirio 5000

 

[Robb]

Well I've been using the Sirio on a Wilson mag mount for well over three years now w/o a single problem. It has far exceeded all expectations for talking some serious DX (over 8k/miles) with nothing more than a barefoot radio. But the Wilson used wasn't all that shabby either.

Since the only difference is the Sirio, take it apart and see if the solder connections on the coil are OK. If a solder joint is broken, use a soldering gun and fix it. That happened to mine - BTW. My fault; hit a low hanging branch (ouch). Also check it with a digital multimeter across ground to center pin for a short; then check it from center pin to whip for continuity. Not much can go wrong with this antenna; so something basic/simple is being overlooked.
That's it . . .

 

[IMD262]

Could be a Chinese bootleg Sirio.

 

[222DBFL]

Looks like you have the PL125 mag mount? If so I recommend getting the PL145, it's a larger magnet which covers more surface area and is stronger. Also I have found that changing the stock rg58 coax with some quality rg8x or lmr240 helped mine. And last, I trimmed my whip from the top and not bottom, had to take a little bit more off, but the result is a stiffer over all whip that doesn't bend as much during highway speeds. Also tilting the antenna a bit forward helps when traveling as it makes the antenna stand more straight at speed. These are the things I have noticed anyway and have Been tweaking my system for a while now, trying different things and what I posted above seems to be the best I have been able to get as far as performance goes. I have used the wilson 5000 and I just don't think it does as well as the sirio. The mag mount has a lot to do with it as well. If you don't have the PL145 mag mount I would suggest getting it. And for the record I just tuned a turbo 5000 today with the pl145 mag mount , 1.15-1.1 across the 11 meter band, I talk more on the upper frequencies so this is a good VSWR setting for me. Hope this helps as I have have too tried using the wilson mag mount for the performer 5000 and the PL145 mag mount just a stronger magnet. Like I said, not a fan of the rg58 as I believe it's a lossy coax. I tried rg8x but it's just not as robust as my lmr240, better shielding and it's quality coax. May not seem like much, but I promise it helps. Again these are the things in have found through my use of the sirio performer, the megawatt 4000 and now the turbo 5000. Over a year now with experimenting. I have it pretty much nailed at this point and all that is left is adding some other components to my system. Also I used an Anritsu site master to set my VSWR. Nice to have some good equipment for work that I can use. Anyway, again hope this helps and god bless.

 

[Tucker442]

2222DBFL with all that fiddleing I might as well put a 102" whip on it. That mount that I am using does come with the RG-8X from the factory, the swr is in the 1.2 to 1.3 range all over, the top of my truck does make a Great ground plane, if the magnet mount would make a difference I would give it a try but seeing as the Wilson works so good with that set up why won't the Sirio?

 

[Tucker442]

I just ordered the PL 145 from Amazon maybe it's a better match than the Wilson one so I am going to give it another try

 

[Lil'Yeshua]

My pl145 and coax is way better than the K40 and magmount it replaced. I cut almost 7 cm off my whip to pick up the high end of 11 Meters and to listen on 10 meters. Better still,get a Sirio hard mount.

 

[222DBFL]

I hear ya on the 102" whip man. My work van is one of the Nissan Envy 3500's. Around 8ft 6"in conservatively. With my performer on top add. 6.5ft to that and you have a tree banging, overpass hitting mobile lol . But like you, my roof provides the best ground plane and so be it. I have also added another PL145 magnet mount on the underside of my van, so it's a strong bond. It does work well and allows me to make many contacts, so I am happy!!

 

[W5LZ]

This is just a few things I've noticed in this thread.
If you have the choice, a 'hard-mount' is better than a mag-mount. That pertains mostly to performance but also in 'practical' aspects. There are a number of reasons why a hard-mount isn't practical or desirable, but a mag-mount is always a compromise.
One aspect of feed line choice that isn't always taken into account is the length of that feed line's run. For most mobile instalations the length isn't a determining factor, it's just not long enough to make any practical difference in losses. RG-58 of a good quality is adequate in most cases. The key in that is that 'good quality' thingy! Most RG-58 that's commonly found just isn't the 'best' in the world. Didn't used to be that way, but it is now. Nothing wrong with using RG-8x (of good quality). The biggest thingy with it is that it's a little larger than RG-58, requires different size reducers. Again, the usual length of the run isn't going to make any prectical difference in losses. Fractional dB losses mean nothing, you can't 'hear' them and no one else will either. The Times Microwave LMR-200 is the equivalent of RG-58. LMR-240 is the equivalent of RG-8X. Nothing especially beneficial about them, any loss difference is negligable at HF.
The key to any antenna installation is in the tuning the antenna part. No antenna can be 'pre-tuned' exactly, or even 'well' in most cases. There are always two steps in tuning an antenna. One is making the thing resonant and the other is matching the antenna's input impedance to the rest of the system (SWR). The first step is almost never done and that's the most important one. The second step, matching impedances (SWR) only affects how much signal get's to the antenna, NOT how well the antenna radiates it. It's a terrible way to 'tune' an antenna. The big deal about resonance is that resonance means that the reactances in the antenna are neutralized, nulled. So?? Reactances don't radiate anything, or contribute to the radiation of anything. "But everybody does it that way!", yeah right...
- 'Doc

 

[Lil'Yeshua]

Look, I'm a parrot!

Sirio says that a magmount is just for temporary use although if you're in the habit of switching your radio and antenna out on various autos such as rentals then magmount would make perfect sense.
Tuning one for your ride involves a little more.

 

[Tucker442]

I figure if I can get the SWR below 1.3 all across the bands I use it should work just fine. I'm not a hole in the roof drilling kind of guy, have used Mag Mounts for ever and never had an issue other than messing up the paint a little, who really looks at the paint on the roof of a truck anyway. I've had K40's old Antenna Specialists and a few other mag mounts with no issues other than Hurricane Sandy blew my Wilson off and it was on the ground still hooked up LOL. All my vehicles also have a braided ground strap from the body to the back of my radio, been doing that for years also.

 

[hayseed]

W5LZ,

"One is making the thing resonant"

How does one go about doing this? I have a WIlson 5K with 1.1 up to 1.3.

 

[M0GVZ]

I figure if I can get the SWR below 1.3 all across the bands I use it should work just fine. I'm not a hole in the roof drilling kind of guy, have used Mag Mounts for ever and never had an issue other than messing up the paint a little, who really looks at the paint on the roof of a truck anyway. I've had K40's old Antenna Specialists and a few other mag mounts with no issues other than Hurricane Sandy blew my Wilson off and it was on the ground still hooked up LOL. All my vehicles also have a braided ground strap from the body to the back of my radio, been doing that for years also.

Just because you have a low SWR doesn't mean its working fine. A dummy load has a perfect SWR but makes a crap antenna. You can have low SWR but have quite severe common mode issues. You can have low SWR but because of poor coupling to ground have quite low performance in comparison to a hard mounted antenna. Low SWR means nothing. What would be more interesting is to see what the impedance is when the antenna is resonant, where X=0. That'll tell you a lot about the efficiency of the system. If its anything other than 37 Ohms you have loss of efficiency due to ground losses. Even a few ohms can make a large difference to efficiency. But hey the SWR is low so its all good, right?

All my vehicles also have a braided ground strap from the body to the back of my radio

That achieves absolutely nothing, nada, zero, zich, zip. The only thing it does do is introduce the possibility of a ground loop. Got alternator noise or ignition noise? Chances are that strap is contributing. And if you've wired the negative wire directly to the battery, if there's ever a fault on the main battery to frame/body negative cable, that braided ground strap ensures that the total current of all electrical devices in the car, including the starter motor when you crank the engine, will go straight through your radio turning the insides into charcoal.

 

[Tucker442]

Boy I must be a real dummy about radio according to that. From my day of first radio instruction by a bunch of old ham guys, I was told to ground everything on a mobile, doors, hoods, exhaust because it hangs on rubber, add grounds from the body to the chassis to the engine and if your SWR is less than 1.5 you won't blow anything up. Over the years I have had a ton of different antennas, 102" whip, Antenna Specialists trunk lip mount and yes I did have a ground strap from the trunk to the body by the hinge. A few center loaded trunk lip mounts, a few mag mounts, K40 was my first. Then when Wilson came to be I started buying their products, sure worked a ton better than the K40. I have NO ignition or electrical noise at all in my truck. The only crazy noise I get is when I am by a traffic light control box, wish someone would do something about them. Just yesterday I talked over 50 miles ground wave from my truck to south jersey so I must be doing something right, no amp using 27.375 middle of the after noon. That said I am always willing to learn if it helps, I am very open minded about radio setups

 

[binrat]

442
I would say that you you bond your vehicles pretty well. If you take your negative power from the battery just ensure that you fuse it with the same size of fuse as the positive side.

As for the antenna, have you checked it like Robb has suggested??