Trombone matching thing on i10K

[davev8]

I have been googling images of the Trombone match used in the i10k to see how it works ... now have i got it correct ? as i see it comparing it to the maco/sigma 2 typ ring which has 1 end to radals the other end of the ring to the radiator and the feed line is movable on the ring till a match is found..
with the trombone the feed looks if it is fixed, and by sliding the trombone this appears to have the same effect as making the ring on the maco bigger or smaller instead, but ending up with the same result ....is this correct or is there more going on with the trombone........
Dave

 

[W5LZ]

That's basically it.
- 'Doc

 

[davev8]

That's basically it.
- 'Doc

Thanks ........so has the trombone got any advantage over the ring??
maybe more adjustment range ??

 

[W5LZ]

davev8,
I don't know how much adjustment 'range' that 'trombone' thingy has or the 'ring' for that matter. Since the 'trombone' is larger I would think it would have more adjustment to it, but that's just a guess. You could either find someone who has one, or ask Jay about that. Jay won't 'B.S.' you if you ask him.
- 'Doc

 

[Shockwave]

Jay won't 'B.S.' you if you ask him.
- 'Doc

Are you sure? I read where he claimed "the hairpin added several db." On his site there are other claims where the I-10K worked as good as a 3 element Yagi. Both qualify as BS.

 

[W5LZ]

What can I say? Jay hasn't B.S.'d me when I've asked him things, so I figure he would do the same for everyone.
- 'Doc

 

[Marconi]

davev8,
I don't know how much adjustment 'range' that 'trombone' thingy has or the 'ring' for that matter. Since the 'trombone' is larger I would think it would have more adjustment to it, but that's just a guess. You could either find someone who has one, or ask Jay about that. Jay won't 'B.S.' you if you ask him.
- 'Doc

My I-10K's trombone is about 85" long from the radiator to the ground plane...which I figure would make a 27" inch ring in that configuration.

The Maco shows 2 x 17.875" curved hoops for the tuning coil, and the radiator is a bit shorter than the I-10K. So, maybe the coil needs to be larger. The Maco also uses a capacitor at the base of the radiator and that too might make some difference.

 

[davev8]

My I-10K's trombone is about 85" long from the e...which I figure would make a 27" inch ring in that configuration.

The Maco shows 2 x 17.875" curved hoops for the tuning coil, and the radiator is a bit shorter than the I-10K. So, maybe the coil needs to be larger. The Maco also uses a capacitor at the base of the radiator and that too might make some difference.

The total length i have used in the past, to make the ring for a full 5/8 wave has been 6 feet from radiator to the ground plane... if i remember correct the tap ends up 2/3eds ish round the ring on the radiator side

 

[Marconi]

The total length i have used in the past, to make the ring for a full 5/8 wave has been 6 feet from radiator to the ground plane... if i remember correct the tap ends up 2/3eds ish round the ring on the radiator side

Dave, I can't speak to what size coil goes where and for which type of antenna. So, I measured my I-10K just because 'Doc said the trombone coil was larger. I still wasn't sure about the difference he mentioned, so I checked the V58 manual. The parts list showed 2 curved tubes that made up the ring coil, and I posted the dimensions that the manual showed. I know you disagree with my dimensions for the V58, but for me, the I-10k trombone is not larger than the coil on the V58.

Beyond what I posted, I can't prove any more except maybe I could post my I-10K Eznec model where I set it up to the actual dimensions for my real antenna that I have tuned for about 27.205 mhz.

You claim the 5/8 wave coil works out to be only 72" and you may be right. So, I'll just have to take your word for it. I have never owned a V58 wave antenna, and I can't measure it.

If you're right then I was wrong in my post, and I apologize to 'Doc.

edit: I did look back at 'Doc's post, and he did say he was just guessing, so I missed that too. I should have said nothing in this thread.

 

[Henry HPSD]

What can I say? Jay hasn't B.S.'d me when I've asked him things, so I figure he would do the same for everyone.
- 'Doc

You know what the sad thing is...
Im actually hoping the guy is a good guy..willing to make the "best" where he can.
As im confident he started out like that and migth still be...

However, i too have seen in the past my "part" of him.
He was telling something that just couldnt be true.
(a google search will probarbly point you in the direction)
When he was told, he just kept on going....
And im not talking about 1 time.

The issue with "us" antenna freaks (and im calculating you all in this hihi)
We cant know all...thats impossible ! And there are always people who know more...always.
So take advantege of that, and share what you do know!

But if your not willing to learn.....when you are beeing directed in the rigth direction..
Or your not willing to debate, the claims made...
If your not willing to ahg...whats the use if one is not willing......

Sadly some have come across so many time the same question, they think they know.
And when they are proven otherwise:

Those tend to show what i call "seagull" behaviour...:
It flies in ...makes alot of noise, leaving "sh*t" all over the place...everybody is astonished.
And it flies away...leaving exactly just that behind.
And those can be found on any social level hihi..


Kind regards,

H>

 

[davev8]

[

 

[Marconi]

Henry, how are you coming along with your CST modeling project for the New Vector 4000, that you told me about a while back?

BTW, I agree with your analogy of the Seagull event, it is human nature to puff and puff until one disappears among all the half truths in their imagination.

 

[Henry HPSD]

Havnt done anything yet marconi,
At first i tend to let it go...something to do with one writing: "hold my breath"..
When i was actually getting too it....
That i found really irritating, as the cst model wasnt something i was interested in.
it was hoping to do some a a favour. So i thougth: just forget about it

But i also read the "appolgize" for that...and i shouldnt be so "stubborn"
(how do i write that word). So i am sorry as well. ( no harm ment m8.)
Ill make work out of it.
I will get the model ready this weekend. And then you only have to depend on the guys from cst...but they tend to be not irrititated and rather fast hihi.

Regards, H.

 

[davev8]

made a mistake

I made a mistake when i said this ring is like the sigma 2
Avanti AV-170 "Sigma 5/8" / "Sigma II"
as can be seen the sigma 2 does not seem to have a feed to the circumference of the ring...........un less its a coil inside the fiberglass with 1 end to the center coaxe the other to the top bolt of the ring and a tap to the bottom bolt of the ring ....but in the advertising they say no coils to burn out , so if this is the case how the sigma 2 work then?

 

[Marconi]

Havnt done anything yet marconi,
At first i tend to let it go...something to do with one writing: "hold my breath"..
When i was actually getting too it....
That i found really irritating, as the cst model wasnt something i was interested in.
it was hoping to do some a a favour. So i thougth: just forget about it

But i also read the "appolgize" for that...and i shouldnt be so "stubborn"
(how do i write that word). So i am sorry as well. ( no harm ment m8.)
Ill make work out of it.
I will get the model ready this weekend. And then you only have to depend on the guys from cst...but they tend to be not irrititated and rather fast hihi.

Regards, H.

Henry, I'm not sure I understand everything you said here, just as you meant it, but it doesn't really matter...I get the gist and I'm happy to know it ain't going to happen after waiting since March.

I wasn't impressed with this new antenna simulation type software I checked out either, but I can understand it all has it place in the field of RF. I'm sure it also has all the known necessary science included in the background to make the models work. However, in the software I saw no practical reporting details as output, just the pretty animated patterns shown.

For me this doesn't really matter, because whatever you might have come up with in your efforts was very likely not going to change one mind around here. These guys around here don't typically change their minds.

I saw enough in Booty Monster's post on Eham, to know what we see reported here about the Sirio animated image of the Vector 4000, is based entirely on the eye of the beholder, and nothing else is provided or show, support, or even speak to what we see.

I can see exactly what has been reported regarding these CST images, but I think the explanations are not as we're lead to believe.