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WHICH BEAM ANTENNA IS WORTH PUTTING UP??
- Thread starter TonyV225
- Start date
Tony,
if you are just talking 11 mtrs. the super scanner especially if you already have them plus parts. The money you'll spend on a smoking gun you could get some of the smaller tri band beams, heck i know where there is a cushcraft ma5B for less than the joe gunn beam and it's pretty local for us and it's only 1 yr. old
p.s. you would probably get a lot more answers to this if your'e talking c.b. on that section of the board rather than the ham section.
if you are just talking 11 mtrs. the super scanner especially if you already have them plus parts. The money you'll spend on a smoking gun you could get some of the smaller tri band beams, heck i know where there is a cushcraft ma5B for less than the joe gunn beam and it's pretty local for us and it's only 1 yr. old
p.s. you would probably get a lot more answers to this if your'e talking c.b. on that section of the board rather than the ham section.
I was looking to get a beam up that will atleast get me into 10 meters even if a tuner is needed. I seen that joe gunn is pretty broad banded. I hear superscanners are great but then the next guy says there only considered 12.3 times the power out where the maco 4 element and joe gunn were 28 times out. Am I going to see a huge difference between joe gunn and super scanner in all reality? RF Ill PM you my number call me when you get a chance I am interested in and have a question about that cushcraft
Im not sure if you have your ham ticket or not, But if your looking to get on 10, 11 ,12 ,15 ,17 ,20 and even 40 meters Look at some of the log periodics out there. They basically are a beam that use mutual inductance of the parasitic elements to create a loaded match for the specified band. So on 10 meter you might have a 5 element beam where as on 40 you would only have a 2 element. If you only looking for 10/11 meter than go the MACO route for sure. I have used there antennas both verticals and beams, and they are rugged and have excellent radiation patterns! My maco v5/8 1000 took a direct lightning strike and was blown over all in one storm. The strike was so powerfull, it arched over to my fence and welded the fence gate shut! All I had to do was rebend a counterpoise and throw it back up in the air!
It just depends on exactly what you are looking for, and the room you have to work with. All beam antennas of the same general 'type' and number of elements are pretty 'equal'. There will be some differences, but mostly not much. I honestly think that the biggy is the mechanical aspect, what the thing will withstand and how easy to handle. Like almost all antennas, the 'bigger the better', to some ridiculous point.
Don't expect much 'broadbandedness' without a lot of compromises. Those compromises are in both electrical and mechanical abilities or characteristics. Doesn't really matter if you use a tuner or not, unless you can change the antennas design lengths. Oh, you can certainly 'skootch' an antenna up/down aways, but performance suffers.
Wish I had room for a really 'good' Log Periodic! But, especially for HF, you are talking humongus sized antenna! They are certainly more broadbanded than single/multi-band beams (average the same performance as a 3 element).
Those 'SuperScanner's are pretty nice. They average about the same performance as a typical 3 element beam, but they also don't need a rotor to $witch direction$. If you don't happen to have a large rotor laying around (look at the prices, you might agree with me after that).
Antenna gain figures are sort of like estimated gas milage on new cars. 'Close', but don't hold your breath, and also sort of 'fantastical', sort of.
- 'Doc
[Handy clue. Divide the stated gain figure by 3. That answer times 4 will give you a 'ball-park' estimate on "power" increase. That answer times 3 is much closer to the actual comparison to power output. And it all depends on exactly what antenna you/they are basing that comparison on. And THAT is very variable!]
Don't expect much 'broadbandedness' without a lot of compromises. Those compromises are in both electrical and mechanical abilities or characteristics. Doesn't really matter if you use a tuner or not, unless you can change the antennas design lengths. Oh, you can certainly 'skootch' an antenna up/down aways, but performance suffers.
Wish I had room for a really 'good' Log Periodic! But, especially for HF, you are talking humongus sized antenna! They are certainly more broadbanded than single/multi-band beams (average the same performance as a 3 element).
Those 'SuperScanner's are pretty nice. They average about the same performance as a typical 3 element beam, but they also don't need a rotor to $witch direction$. If you don't happen to have a large rotor laying around (look at the prices, you might agree with me after that
).Antenna gain figures are sort of like estimated gas milage on new cars. 'Close', but don't hold your breath, and also sort of 'fantastical', sort of.
- 'Doc
[Handy clue. Divide the stated gain figure by 3. That answer times 4 will give you a 'ball-park' estimate on "power" increase. That answer times 3 is much closer to the actual comparison to power output. And it all depends on exactly what antenna you/they are basing that comparison on. And THAT is very variable!]
Like Doc said, log periodics are nice but for HF they are HUGE and do not have that much gain for their size,typical performance is similar to a three element beam at best.that's the trade off for a broadband antenna like that. The gain figures that Jo Gunn quote are just plain flat out lies meant to impress those that do not know any better. No offence meant to anyone with that comment. You just cannot change the laws of physics just because your name is Jo Gunn. (BTW, WTF is audio gain when talking about antennas anyway?) Anyone ever notice how a four element beam for CB has MUCH more gain than a four element beam for a ham band even 10m? Ever wonder why? I'll leave it to you to figure out on your own. 
If you are looking for something to cover 10/11m I would suggest a small quad. they are more broadbanded than a yagi and will have pretty even gain across both bands although the use of a tuner may be required on the edges of either band.
If you are looking for something to cover 10/11m I would suggest a small quad. they are more broadbanded than a yagi and will have pretty even gain across both bands although the use of a tuner may be required on the edges of either band.
do we agree that the power multiplication figures for maco antennas are acurate? Im curious. Im somewhat interested in a m103c for the base.
Someone I know just put up a Joe Gunn 'Smokin Gun' single-element beam last weekend. He lives ~15 miles from me. His signal strength - when pointed in my direction - has improved by 2 S-units. From 7 S-units to almost 10 S-units.
Beams are a lot of trouble to put up - but rewarding if done right. The rotor (plus the fact that it needs to be wired to the control box), the SWR match (on both the horizontal and vertical polarizations), the extra coax and switch to change polarization need to be done right to take advantage of all its features.
His cost was approximately ~$400, and it took up half of the day -with 2 people helping out- to get it done. A lot tougher than a simple IMAX. He told me that I was hitting him with ~20 S-units with my IMAX. While he was only hitting me with 10 S-units. Neither of us were running power, so I have no way of explaining why it shouldn't have been the 'other away round'. It appears that his antenna is receiving much better than transmitting. Or my IMAX is transmitting better than receiving. Both of were using export radios.
Go figure...
Food for thought...
Beams are a lot of trouble to put up - but rewarding if done right. The rotor (plus the fact that it needs to be wired to the control box), the SWR match (on both the horizontal and vertical polarizations), the extra coax and switch to change polarization need to be done right to take advantage of all its features.
His cost was approximately ~$400, and it took up half of the day -with 2 people helping out- to get it done. A lot tougher than a simple IMAX. He told me that I was hitting him with ~20 S-units with my IMAX. While he was only hitting me with 10 S-units. Neither of us were running power, so I have no way of explaining why it shouldn't have been the 'other away round'. It appears that his antenna is receiving much better than transmitting. Or my IMAX is transmitting better than receiving. Both of were using export radios.
Go figure...
Food for thought...
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I would say that after having a quick look at the Maco website that their gain figures are not out by much keeping in mind that they appear to be in referance to an isotropic source and not a dipole. Those on the Jo Gunn site are just completely beyond all reality and reason. Apparently Jo Gunn likes to include "ground gain" in their figures which is the gain added by the signal that is reflected off the ground if and ONLY IF it is in perfect phase with the main signal and the two combine and add in strength. In reality this all depends on antenna height and ground quality under the antenna. IOW it's a hit or miss thing that actually applies to ALL antennas and not just Jo Gunns.
What about a 2 element (or 3 or even 4/5 element) by steppir .
They make really good antennas...the 2 element isnt even large
Steppir Antennas Home check them out
They make really good antennas...the 2 element isnt even large
Steppir Antennas Home check them out
Before you get indigestion from that food for thought, the most common reason for 'odd', different, or unusual signal strength readings is fairly simple. Those 'S' meters are not calibrated accurately, or even linearly, or even in the same ball park. Forget that 'ball-park' thingy, it's very common for 'S' meters not to be even in the same state. Then, unless the two stations swapping readings are almost in each others antenna's 'near-fields', propagation can, and does, play a big part of what they will see on 10/11 meters. That propagation stuff changes at a variable rate. Ever see/hear a signal go up/down, sound like someone changing their output power levels? Parked in your drive way one second and somewhere in the next state the next? Of course you have.
There really is such a thing as reciprocity when speaking about transmitting/receiving with a particular antenna. And, because of all the differences between mounting, tuning, propagation, etc, even the same identical antenna used by someone else won't always have the same 'level' of reciprocity as the one used by you. Each of those antennas still have reciprocity, still hear as well as they talk (or visa-versa).
Then you get down to the fact that all 'S' meter readings are 'relative'. They are not exact except under very 'exacting' circumstances that do not change. It's a very, very rare time when conditions do not change on the air. (Or did one of the two happen to lean away from the mic??)
One blood pressure reading tells you very little. So does one 'S' meter reading. Nasty thought, huh?
- 'Doc
There really is such a thing as reciprocity when speaking about transmitting/receiving with a particular antenna. And, because of all the differences between mounting, tuning, propagation, etc, even the same identical antenna used by someone else won't always have the same 'level' of reciprocity as the one used by you. Each of those antennas still have reciprocity, still hear as well as they talk (or visa-versa).
Then you get down to the fact that all 'S' meter readings are 'relative'. They are not exact except under very 'exacting' circumstances that do not change. It's a very, very rare time when conditions do not change on the air. (Or did one of the two happen to lean away from the mic??)
One blood pressure reading tells you very little. So does one 'S' meter reading. Nasty thought, huh?
- 'Doc
well I hope you noticed how quickly those Super Scanners fell out of the conversation. I would like to add to the aforementioned Maco's and Gunn's the M squared antennas. M2 makes a rugged product with good reviews too. Look here: http://www.m2inc.com/
