Well Mr. Clean at least Wizard can make them do watts. It works and sounds good and therefore you are pleased as a customer. The corners he cuts effect tube life, safety, and interference issues. He's figured out how to make the Bird move. Maybe all this Wizard bashing will improve his building experience. Nothing like having your mistakes thrown in your face with an explanation of exactly what is wrong.
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Wizard GI-46B
- Thread starter bigred222
- Start date
Politics, religion, amplifiers, and now health care. What more controversial topics are there?
The highlighted parts in the quotes above show the root of all amplifier debates. On one hand we have a satisfied customer who admits to knowing very little about what makes an amp good. On the other hand we have a knowledgeable person that knows what goes into making a good amp. It is true that what makes an amp a good or even great amp is much more than what it takes to make a meter show high numbers.Quality of the components used and the care in which they are laid out and assembled mean a lot. Most people have no idea what IMD and class of operation and even circuit layout have to do with quality of build nor do they realise what a tube should have for protection. All they care about is how much drive does it need and how much will it put out and when it fries the tube can I send it back for repairs? That is as much as they care and most of the time that is all they will EVER care about. If someone chooses to buy an amp I would like them to at first understand something about the differences between a good amp that does the numbers on a meter and a GREAT amp that does the same numbers but costs a bit more. Take a look inside and ask questions. If the answers sound like BS or the questions don't get answered at all then buy elsewhere. There are a lot of folks that scoff at the prices of some ham amps and claim that they are no different than CB amps but I ask you to look inside a Wizard amp and then look inside a QRO Technologies HF-2500DX and then ask why the QRO costs so much more.
Wizard Built Products
QRO Technologies - Ray Connin KB8VU - HF-2500DX Internal Photos
Heres somthing to think about.... I run a TEN TEC TITAN 425 that uses 2 3cx800a7 Triodes. Ten Tec is known for running the voltages lower than most in the name of longevity. Even still, at 70 watts input I can easily see 2400watts out with VERY minimal grid current and little to no Voltage sag. I can run this all day and nite and never bother my TV computer speakers or adjacent channels.
On the Wizard side, He runs 2 3cx800a7's and gets 3500-4kw out and kills everyone within the regular 40 and your neighbors microwave is turning itself on!!! Obviously no filtering and Very poor Power Supply regulation. This is where it gets fun. Put a Low Pass filter on the output of the wizard and watch the watts drop to about 2600-2800 depending on drive and supply voltage. Alot of the numbers you see out of these amps are harmonics from the poor filtering or the complete lack there of.
On the Wizard side, He runs 2 3cx800a7's and gets 3500-4kw out and kills everyone within the regular 40 and your neighbors microwave is turning itself on!!! Obviously no filtering and Very poor Power Supply regulation. This is where it gets fun. Put a Low Pass filter on the output of the wizard and watch the watts drop to about 2600-2800 depending on drive and supply voltage. Alot of the numbers you see out of these amps are harmonics from the poor filtering or the complete lack there of.
I dont have TVI or RFI issues at all. A guy I know and you would know on the forums from time to time and respect as far as amp design and repair goes told me that as far as CB amps go Wizard is about as good as you can get. He also told me if he built it there would be some things he would do different but the price would go up alot. Im not a ham and have no desire to be one. Im a CBer and hope the Wizard lasts along time. If it works this well for 5 yrs or so before needing a repair of any kind I will be happy. Im not going to battle on the forums about electronics because im unarmed. I try and drive it cleanly. And after having it for a year knowing what I do now I would buy it again. That is all. Peace Love and Willie Nelson!!
That says it all right there!!! Dont overdrive it, and apply a clean signal and you will have a respectable signal out. I am a cber also and as far as CB amps go, Wizard is decent, Im not bashing them as I have only ever seen one. But from what I looked at, it was a competition only design.
As for filtering in Ham amplifiers just look at almost any of em, Ameritron, Alpha, Ten Tec, QRO/palstar, Henry, yaesu, Icom.......All use a version of a PI network and some have individual band input chokes and output filtering per specific band.
Hey Mr Clean don't waste your time. I have been running Wizards products for a little over two years now with no problems or complaints, and I haven't vaporized yet
. I have found that most of the people doing the bashing or complaining here are builders or want to be amp builders, or they have never in their life keyed a Wizard. So you know how that goes... I have never heard of a genuine Wizard Built end user get on one of the many forums and complain about Wizard after buying and running his product.Not to be a wise guy but the only reason you don't see Wizard owners pointing out all the mistakes is because to purchase one is a fairly good indication that you wouldn't be able to spot the problems anyhow. Can you tell if the amp is running at 60% efficiency or 30% efficiency? Do you know the difference in RFI levels between a 100% shielded RF compartment and one that's not? When the tube fails one day because you made a big accident with drive levels, tune adjustments, or antenna problems will you think that's normal?
Drifter use to post pictures of the inside of his Wizard.......wonder why they have been deleted? Having said all that I will admit Wizard is better then some of the 11 meter amps I've seen. I know of one person that was killed by a box some idiot made using an RCA connector for B+. It wasn't a Wizard made but his aren't much safer with no DC blocking choke to stop B+ from making it down your coax. Don't ever adjust your antenna with that thing in line.
Drifter use to post pictures of the inside of his Wizard.......wonder why they have been deleted? Having said all that I will admit Wizard is better then some of the 11 meter amps I've seen. I know of one person that was killed by a box some idiot made using an RCA connector for B+. It wasn't a Wizard made but his aren't much safer with no DC blocking choke to stop B+ from making it down your coax. Don't ever adjust your antenna with that thing in line.
A tuned input isn't a filter. A pi-net isn't a filter either. Wizzard uses a pi-net just like the ham amps. People keep coming up with the mythical filters that are on ham tube linears. There aren't any. Not necessary.
The only filters I've ever seen were on the SB-221 to kill the chicken band. Those get taken out and the thing then works on 11.
There aren't any filters on ham tube linear amps.
I'll repeat myself to keep up with the incorrect information.
No filters.
None.
I'll bet the Wizamps have pretty good efficiency since they are maximized to make the meter move.
While a tube amp almost never requires a harmonic filter to keep it clean, there are things that shouldn't be overlooked. The PI network itself acts like a filter and requires a tube amp to be tuned to it's operating frequency. Even that tuned input circuit reduces harmonics. Try loading your amp up on 40 meters with the band switch on 80. Some harmonics still get by but they are reduced well below FCC requirements. In some areas you will find RF filtering in a ham amp that is often overlooked in the CB amp. At the very least all ham amps filter RF from getting back on the AC line with a couple of caps. Many CB amps can't even keep RF out of the power supply and forget the AC line.
Output power is not a good indication of efficiency. Just drive it a little harder and you can cover up lots of mismatch and inefficiency. They don't even have a calibrated amp and volt meter so you could have a clue. Who knows how he has these things biased and the PI network construction sure is not a good sign of efficiency. Wizard amps aren't noted for getting the maximum potential out of a given tube either. I'd like to see the color of some thermal paint on the anode after a long QSO.
Output power is not a good indication of efficiency. Just drive it a little harder and you can cover up lots of mismatch and inefficiency. They don't even have a calibrated amp and volt meter so you could have a clue. Who knows how he has these things biased and the PI network construction sure is not a good sign of efficiency. Wizard amps aren't noted for getting the maximum potential out of a given tube either. I'd like to see the color of some thermal paint on the anode after a long QSO.
The PI network is a tunable filter. Pi-L and Pi Output Networks for RF Power Amplifiers
Input toroids or transformers act as pass band filters allowing only the target frequency to pass and attenuate the 2nd and 3rd order harmonic.
Again, I cant speak for wizard amps as I have only dealt with one in person. But from what I saw, the build was limited to the bare minimum (why his boxes are a value) and had no safety for itself or operators.
Input toroids or transformers act as pass band filters allowing only the target frequency to pass and attenuate the 2nd and 3rd order harmonic.
Again, I cant speak for wizard amps as I have only dealt with one in person. But from what I saw, the build was limited to the bare minimum (why his boxes are a value) and had no safety for itself or operators.
His boxes may be a savings in money up front but if you plan on owning the amp for some time, chances are the upkeep will outweigh the initial savings. If you have to replace the tubes prematurely one time, this cost would have been the difference needed to buy it built right the first time. Ceramic tubes are designed to provide years of continuous broadcast service. I have "fragile" 8877 amplifiers with the same tube in intermittent communications use for 20 years with full output.
They last forever in two way radio use when the amp has protection. So many people are convinced this requires tons of extra money and time to install and that makes it not worth doing. Complete BS. Using a pair of opto-couplers connected to existing meter shunt resistors you can protect the plate and grid for a few dollars in parts. It only takes a little more time and money but a lot more knowledge. Sure is nice to press the reset button after a simple mistake rather then buying new tubes.
They last forever in two way radio use when the amp has protection. So many people are convinced this requires tons of extra money and time to install and that makes it not worth doing. Complete BS. Using a pair of opto-couplers connected to existing meter shunt resistors you can protect the plate and grid for a few dollars in parts. It only takes a little more time and money but a lot more knowledge. Sure is nice to press the reset button after a simple mistake rather then buying new tubes.
Maybe I should have made my point a little clearer.
Everyone who has been into tube amplifier design for more than 5 minutes knows that a pi-net and a tuned input will provide some filtering.
I'm talking about a bandpass filter. Specifically designed for 50 ohm input and output. Not tuned input or output coupling networks.
People keep posting about tube amps like they are transistor amps needing a bandpass filter in order to be up to hammy hambone standards. They don't. Never did. You see these postings on different radio interest boards including this one. That plants a crooked seed.
Everyone who has been into tube amplifier design for more than 5 minutes knows that a pi-net and a tuned input will provide some filtering.
I'm talking about a bandpass filter. Specifically designed for 50 ohm input and output. Not tuned input or output coupling networks.
People keep posting about tube amps like they are transistor amps needing a bandpass filter in order to be up to hammy hambone standards. They don't. Never did. You see these postings on different radio interest boards including this one. That plants a crooked seed.