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Any Astro Plane Fans ?

Discussion in 'CB Antennas' started by tuner, Dec 13, 2014.

  1. tuner

    tuner
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    Just wondering if anyone would like to join a Facebook group I created.
    "Astro Plane Antenna Group" Its nothing special, I just thought it would be interesting to hear and learn from others and their experiences with this antenna whether it be An Avanti or CTE Clone etc. or any others.I'm having issues with the group not showing up on searches so please let me know if you would like to join. Thanks , Tuner

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/astroplane/


     

  2. Marconi

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    Usually if I can hear em' I can talk to em'.

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    Hey Tuner, thanks for starting this group. I am a big fan of this fine working antenna. A few day ago I put my Sirio New Top One up to work our DX Contest today and I thought it worked very well.

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  3. tuner

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    Very good Sir ! thanks for joining ! :)
     
  4. bob85

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    i have a NOS avanti astroplane on its way to me,

    never gave my first astroplane a fighting chance the first time around so i decided i would have another go,

    i just read the avanti astroplane patent again and realised avanti talked as much technobull back then as all but one cb antenna builders talk today,

    prior art antennas such as 1/2wave and 5/8wave endfeds do NOT have maximum current near the radial/monopole junction as claimed,
    nor do they radiate most from the bottom,
    the astroplane has a 4ft height advantage in current maxima at best when mounted at the same tip height as prior art antennas,

    they also can't make their mind up about the effect on bandwidth and efficiency when you hat load the upper 1/4wave of the antenna,
    whoever wrote the patent did not know much about antennas imho,

    seems like you can say anything you like to get a patent so long as you don't mention over unity & upset the oil company,

    im avanti's number one fan, i just don't like technobull.
     
    Needle Bender likes this.
  5. Marconi

    Marconi
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    Good luck with your new/old A/P Bob. I think you will appreciate what it can be...if you get the current maximum even close to the same point on radiator for the longer high gain antennas.

    At my location, I don't even have to get this particular antenna to the same tip height...just close. You'll notice the difference in my antenna image above with my Gain Master and there is still a relatively small difference, most of the time, in DX signals for sure. I see more of a difference in local signals, but again with the DX I was working in Friday's contact contest...the difference was first one then the other with the best signal...even with my Galaxy 2547's RF gain turned way down of fully on.

    I consider my GM to be an exceptional antenna regarding how quiet it operates, and how well it works to reduce CMC type TVI, but my New Top One is even quieter when conditions are really nice, and that is a noticeable difference.

    NOTE: The NTO is no where near as well behaved as the GM at the height I had it however.


    At some point I was talking to Audio Shockwave (AS), and he told me Homer was on the air. I cleared off with AS, and I heard him talking to Homer. Conditions were really quiet at the time, and I could faintly hear Homer responding, but I could not copy him on either antenna. I tried breaking for him on both antennas, but never felt he heard me. I think Jeff can confirm this, but I'm not sure...as we didn't talk about it again. I have talked to Homer before however.

    I agree there is some antenna BS in patents, but the patent adviser (attorney) is the one that has the understanding to follow the Patent Office rules for applications. In the process however, someone with lots of experience with the technical understanding of the product...also has to be involved and sign-off on what is said or not said.

    I don't think the Avanti guys were ill-informed at all, but I don't think you meant it that way either.

    I do tend to agree with you on the points you made however, but I only see that as a result of studying my Eznec models of the different versions.


    My practical real world experiences with this design...only shows me that it works just as good as my other CB vertical antennas of all shapes and sizes with it being a bit quieter when conditions are really good and quiet. If conditions are not so good...then all bets are off on anything being quieter.

    Bob, I've been curious about how this idea for equal current maxima's works for years, and with the tip of the A/P at an equal height...I would likely see a signal as good or better. However, I think some of this has to do with the height of the feed point, and the fact that the current distribution on the shorter antenna has to be compressed producing more current per inch and thus showing the gain it does. It might not be a net gain increase, but it might somehow just respond like and increase...from such a short antenna. Actually if the tips are equal, then center of the A/P's current maxima will also be higher, relative to the longer radiator.

    I have also been curious, how and why this particular antenna works as it appears to me to work so well. It seems to defy what we often hear reported by many operators. Before I got one, I was intrigued, and after I put my first one up...just a few years back...I was really amazed...and I don't typically get amazed at the performance I see in the several CB vertical antennas I own and compare...considering the fact I see the performance of my antennas more similar that most.

    I disagree here however. I think these guys from Avanti had a responsibility to make their ideas shine in the eye of the reader, and they are trying to cover many bases of ideas with Patent, that if necessary will be fruitful in litigation. If they fudge too much...then who knows what might happen if a good attorney gets hold of a case in dispute.

    I'm Avanti's number 2 fan. What's wrong with unity gain Bob?

    Personally, I think too much is made of gain anyway...at times yesterday I was working with only 5 watts output, and if I was already talking with a contact...IMO they did not notice...we just kept on talking like nothing had changed.

    I did find it difficult sometimes to make a contact with less than the 15 watts my radio shows at maximum output, but I did make several contacts with only 5 watts, plus I used my New Top One all day. I only checked with my Gain Master at times...and I seldom saw a difference of note in the RX signals.

    Good luck with your New/Old AstroPlane...and keep us posted.
     
  6. AudioShockwav

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    Good Morning all, Yes Eddie, I did hear you call Homer, in fact I was able to hear you for quite some time yesterday. The radio I was using was a cobra 148GTL, I had it in place of my Yaesu, the watt meter I have inline has a bar graph type display....on the 25 watt setting it would light the 15 watt bar ( on peak hold setting ) but not the 20 watt segment.
    My AL-811 is not in line, in fact it has been on the shelf for a while now.
    I worked the entire day like that yesterday, and aside for the WDX contacts I was able to work just about any station I could hear.
    Mother nature is a extremely good equalizer with band conditions like we have at the moment.

    73 to all
    Jeff
     
  7. Marconi

    Marconi
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    Jeff, for example yesterday I talked to 419 Space Cowboy in Detroit and he was very loud with an S7-S9 and better signal. I think 419 told me that another station was on line and I called for him. This guy came back to my call, but he had absolutely no signal...just audio. I talked to him a little an got that he (#18) was also in Detroit, so I added his contact to my list. The point is...that radio is not always about big signals. That said however, if a signal had of pop up on my end while he was talking...I likely would have lost him.

    I saw signals going up and down most of the day, with early conditions no contacts, mostly Mexico playing some music. Later on, after noon it was just like somebody on the forum posted regarding conditions, we might get some good DX rolling for the Contest. Most of my very strong signals were coming from Canada and Northern California. Earlier in the morning I heard a lot of Europe, but the signals were stretching in and out, badly.

    As a note, I have never worked my A/P designed antennas during DX periods that I can recall. I was really expecting my New Top One to possibly shine over my Gain Master with DX, but yesterday...I hardly ever saw a difference in signals that mattered. I could hear better on the little NTO that was much lower to the Earth than the GM and that was nice. Since I could hear Homer on the NTO, I'm convinced that the broader maximum beam width of the NTO allowed Homer's closer-in signal to be heard even though I could not copy his words.

    BYW Jeff when your signal was strong, it was probably the strongest signal I got yesterday, except for Grasshopper...wherever he was. I also was hearing you most of the afternoon along with 419 and 208 earlier.

    Thanks for your comments.
     
    #7 Marconi, Dec 14, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2014
  8. bob85

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    read the patent again eddie,
    they contradict what effect the hat has on efficiency and bandwidth,

    the claim they make about prior art antennas radiating from most from near the base including the drawing and advertising showing the astroplane beaming over the obstructions where the regular antenna is shown as radiating from the lower portion & beaming into the obstructions is flat out misleading us or trying their best to,

    i very much doubt those guys did not know the truth about 1/2wave or 5/8waves,

    i agree even a starduster mounted at the same tip height as longer antennas will do a good job,
    the downside with antennas like the astroplane and starduster is more wind load
    and imho more of an eyesore than other antennas at the same tip height,

    the best vertical antenna for me is the one that puts the most signal on the horizon,

    the only thing wrong with unity gain is 9db gain halfwaves claimed lowest takeoff angle 5/8 sell better.
     
  9. jazzsinger

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    Glad to hear you finally got an av 101 sorted Bob. Those av261 look a bit suspect. Was pretty sure they had a 1 piece whip and i know they're now made in italy. So long ago can't be certain.

    The 101's the one you want anyway and it looks spot on. Might go for a couple myself to add to stocks of clr2,mighty magnum 3's and hygain 418's. The one I have is lonely.lol.
     
  10. bob85

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    cheers m8, you know i have wanted one for a long time,
    we will have to wait and see what the 261 are,
    i bought one new when i got my first car and still have two scruffy examples in the garage, all 3 had one piece thick & stiff riding tough as old boots whips, you can't straighten them with the towel & drill trick like other whips.
     
  11. jazzsinger

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    Would probably be interested in 3 or 4 myself. Not too sure on marktplaats though. Those av261, the pic looks like the ones we saw on that italian site a couple of years ago. The av101 deffo look legit. :)
     
  12. jazzsinger

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    I was sure they had the 1 piece whip. Very rigid from what i recall. I can never recall a two piece one. Even the av241 was one piece too. But deffo intetested in astroplanes.
     
  13. bob85

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    jazz,
    if Henry ( top guy in my book ) had not helped out dealing with the guy i would not have an astroplane on its way to me :)
     
  14. tuner

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    Just throwing this out there , if anyone has one to sell please let me know thanks :)
     
  15. Marconi

    Marconi
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    I agree Bob, the Patent does suggest contradiction in the bandwidth part. I see the full .25 model and the real life antenna showing improved BW over the one with the top hat, but as things I find tend to go in this business...the difference is there but it is not very much of a difference in my book. I can't evaluate efficiency, but if real life experience means anything...I don't see much there either.

    I wouldn't make much of an issue over that artist rendering in the patent or the ad copy Bob. I could just as easily suggest that putting a 5/8 wave antenna close enough to the roof of a building back then could surely ill-effect the antenna...just like they suggest. When I put any antenna I have on a 10' foot mast and lean it up against my house, often part of the antenna is obstructed in the direction of the peak on the all wood house and I see the antenna response blocked somewhat. Even though the far field RF is primarily generated from the top 1/2 wave element portion of the radiator, there is still a lot of current flowing in the base that can be disrupted by objects close by. Maybe this is partly what they were referring to in the case of an end fed 5/8 wave where the bottom out of phase portion of the radiator is said to be cancelled by the radials and the radiation does not make it into the far field.

    You know these guys understood antennas backward and forwards and puffing in business is considered an ethical practice still today.

    I think we pick cars by such standards for looks...there is nothing wrong with picking an antenna the same way. Apparently the world really loves the look of the A99. I've bought several over the years and they work fine in most cases.

    I've heard folks make that claim too. In CB it would be foolish to do otherwise, but I like to go a little beyond the horizon, so I set my antennas up to work out beyond your limitation.

    Back when I first heard that claim stated...I wisely just decided to ignore such foolish comments, and I sure wasn't influenced by the statement. IMO that is like a JoGunn ad, and I don't repeat such claims...except to say bullhocky.:ROFLMAO:

    I find 1/2 waves typically work just fine, and they generally can be a lot quieter...if they are installed and tuned correctly by someone that knows what they are doing:cool:.

    Bob I thought you never change your mind, have you changed you mind about Avanti antennas?(n)
     

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