Dipole noise level

[longhaireddwb]

Let me know how well that noise canceller works. If it drops the noise level on 80meters compared to before it was connected and if it don't kill all the receive at the same time. Its a lot of money by itself but if it works right I might have to think about it.

 

[WR0220]

Do you think this will help?

Ham Radio Outlet | TIMEWAVE ANC-4 | RF NOISE CANCELLER

I just got mine and tested it at my parent's house. There would be a S7 buzz whenever the bathroom light was turned on. When properly tuned, the buzzing was almost gone and I was able to hear signals which the buzzing had covered. I'm taking this baby back to my apt tomorrow to test it there.

X3 on the ANC-4. I also suffer from a hellacious noise level around here (S9+) during the day/early evening. On most bands I can dial it down to S3/S4 with the ANC-4. At night I have around an S5 noise level and can dial it down to =< S1. They're a bit spendy but (to me) was worth it. The biggest factor in how well it works is whether the noise is originating from within your house or an outside source then setting up the noise antenna accordingly. I followed the instructions at first and had it mounted low near the ground, but found I got better results with it mounted higher up near the base on my rx/tx antenna. YMMV

 

[ZuMBLe]

The ANC-4 had great success against the florescent lights at my parents place. It didn't seem to have as much affect on the noise at my apt though. It seems to quiet down the receive but it seems to be attenuating the signal rather than just killing the noise. I'll have to plan around with the noise antenna.

X3 on the ANC-4. I also suffer from a hellacious noise level around here (S9+) during the day/early evening. On most bands I can dial it down to S3/S4 with the ANC-4. At night I have around an S5 noise level and can dial it down to =< S1. They're a bit spendy but (to me) was worth it. The biggest factor in how well it works is whether the noise is originating from within your house or an outside source then setting up the noise antenna accordingly. I followed the instructions at first and had it mounted low near the ground, but found I got better results with it mounted higher up near the base on my rx/tx antenna. YMMV

 

[W5LZ]

I think you will find that varying/changing the antenna for that ANC-4 (or any of those of different brands) is a fairly common means of 'making it work' better. The 'best' solutions are seldom those found as examples in the instructions.
Some reduction of the desired signal will happen, but that reduction shouldn't be terrible, and if it makes that particular frequency/band usable, then I figure you've come out ahead. Is it worth it to you? Beats me, is it?
- 'Doc

Oh, and the thing is never going to be 'instantaneous', it will always take a millisecond or two to 'work'. Doesn't sound like much time, but it can be noticeable.

 

[ZuMBLe]

For someone wanting to get rid of florescent lighting buzz, or plasma tv RFI, I would say it's worth it. If you have a mysterious noise, think twice, but it could work.

I think you will find that varying/changing the antenna for that ANC-4 (or any of those of different brands) is a fairly common means of 'making it work' better. The 'best' solutions are seldom those found as examples in the instructions.
Some reduction of the desired signal will happen, but that reduction shouldn't be terrible, and if it makes that particular frequency/band usable, then I figure you've come out ahead. Is it worth it to you? Beats me, is it?
- 'Doc

Oh, and the thing is never going to be 'instantaneous', it will always take a millisecond or two to 'work'. Doesn't sound like much time, but it can be noticeable.

 

[WR0220]

I found the noise antenna is going to be the biggest factor in how well you can attenuate interference. Since my interference is from external sources (power lines and machinery at local business) I didn't get much relief until I put a noise antenna outside. You also need to play with the polarization of your antenna. Even then, it's not going to eliminate 100% off it. It took me about a week or so trying different locations and heights before I saw a significant decrease in interference. Another thing I found is the ANC-4 is not a "set and forget" device. I made cheat sheets of the initial settings for different bands, but those only get me in the ballpark. I need to tweak the settings slightly to obtain a null on a daily basis since some days the interference is worse than others. Between the ANC-4 and DSP in my radio I can now hear stations that are buried in the noise without them.

 

[unit248]

I have the MFJ equivalent to the Timewave ANC-4, the MFJ-1026. These things can work really well, but obtaining good results hinges on two things: putting up a good secondary antenna for capturing the noise, and getting the hang of setting up the device correctly. At least with the MFJ-1026, it takes a little practice to figure out how to find the "sweet spot" where the noise is notched out.

I live right smack in the middle of San Francisco, and there are noise sources everywhere. I typically have at least an S-9 noise floor on 40 meters, whereas on other bands (e.g. 15 meters) it's dead quiet. I just recently put up a vertical antenna on my roof though, so I may have better luck using it to tune out noise with the MFJ box in conjunction with my existing carolina windom. The MFJ-1026 comes with a built-in whip antenna which may work to cancel out very strong local noise sources, but it works best with a good external antenna.

I know your antenna mounting choices are very limited, but make every effort to stay away from power lines. Having the antenna within 10 feet is very dangerous: make damn sure there's no way the antenna can fall and come into contact with the electrical wires. Even though everything is supposed to be insulated, Murphy's Law applies!

In spite of the noise at your location though, have you been able to pick up any signals on 40 meters at all? The AM broadcast stations in that range are usually pretty strong, and I hear a lot of hams on 40 meters with really big signals that I can easily hear over the noise.

-Bill

 

[longhaireddwb]

Thanks for the reply's Bill and all!

I think I might have to get me one of these devises and take a chance. As far as the receive on 40m, I do hear folks out there and do make some contacts but not hams very far away and the noise is terrible. I can't squelch it out or I loose all incoming signals. Same goes with 75/80m. I talked to a guy last night here in Colorado but about 5 hrs away and he could just hear me. If anyone keyed up they covered me up. And listening to him was hard with 15-20 over 9 of noise.

I have an old ham here in town that said he has an old vertical that I can barrow to test out the idea of receiving less noise with a vertical. If it brings the noise down at all I'll buy the Gap Titan that I've been eye balling and the device you guys are talking about to help out.

I will keep everyone up to date on this. It may help others someday.

If anyone else has any input on this I'm still open to suggestions.

 

[W5LZ]

I think you will find that while all antennas are going to be sort of noisy, the vertical ones are going to be just a little noisier than others. That noisiness is relative though, and other characteristics of a vertical antenna may out weigh the noisiness part. I'm not saying not trying them out!
Something else to think about is to not get too wrapped up in the lower 'TOA' of (some) vertical antennas. That low TOA isn't always the 'best' thing to have, that certainly is not the only 'direction' signals arrive at your antenna. The same goes for signal polarity, none of this stuff is 'carved in stone', it's all variable.
- 'Doc

 

[longhaireddwb]

I have a friend with the titan is why I've been lookijg at it. plus m lmted as far as space and putting out ground radials is not a good idea but maybe.
what do u recommend for a vertical doc with my limitations of space? 80 inch counter poises is doable

 

[N1BHH]

The more grounding you do for your station, the better the noise reduction. If you have your station on a ground floor, place several ground rods, the longer the better in a line connected by heavy ground strap or a scrap piece of coax with center conductor and braid bonded together and attached to your rig via braid. I am in process of doing that here, have gone one at a time and it has reduced the noise a bit.

Some locations with open space and high mounted antennas pick up lots of noise, no matter the proximity to power lines. Grounding helps in many such cases. I have known people who needed to bleed off the static before getting on the air and they are absent grounding. The key is grounding, the more the better, not just placement of power lines relative to antennas.

 

[W5LZ]

I'm afraid you wouldn't like my recommendation for a vertical antenna. The only one I would recommend because of experience listening to them is ground mounted, huge, expensive, and requires a good ground system. They definitely require some work and pre-planning to put them in correctly. But, oh, when you do that work and planning, you got one very nice antenna! No tuner required.
I'm afraid with that 80 inch limitation you're gonna have lots of 'fun'.
- 'Doc

(If I could afford one, I'd have one!)

 

[dudmuck]

If it brings the noise down at all I'll buy the Gap Titan that I've been eye balling and the device you guys are talking about to help out.

Ironically, the Gap Titan isnt supposed to be grounded.
The Gap Titan should be electrically isolated from its mount.

kind of goes counter to the general recommendation of grounding.
Ground your station but not the antenna?

 

[MichiganDXer]

This is just a thought, but wasn't coax mentioned as a bad choice for this dipole?
I'm a relatively new ham and was helped out with my wire dipole by an Extra Class.
First, my operating conditions:

City lot, about 60 X 120, with a rectangular ranch house sitting cross ways smack in the middle. My tower is on one end of the house and have the apex of the dipole there at roughly 30ft. Each leg of the antenna is sloped down to about 10ft into the back yard, which means they are only spread about 45 degrees apart. One leg runs down the property line and one runs to the other side of the yard. This making sense?
I have a power line running behind the house, also carrying cable, phone lines. A pole sits on the corner of the property lines and holds a transformer that serves me and my neighbor on the side where the tower is. Basically, I have one leg of my dipole is pointing pretty much strait at the pole and transformer. The other is pointing at the power lines further down. Plus....from that pole there is a line running right up the property line - parallel to the dipole leg pointing at the pole- that serves the street light in front of my house at the corner of my driveway.
The service to my house is roughly in the middle of the back of the house and in effect that one dipole leg is flanked on both side with a power line.
At first look you would think this would be a noise nightmare. Except when the street light kicks on and I get about a minute of static my noise level is usually an S2-S3. Sometimes it will run into an S5 but not very often. This is usually the case on most bands.

This is a center fed dipole with twin lead all the way from the apex of the wire, down the tower, into the house through a pvc port I made, all the way across the house to the opposite side where my rig is. I run it into an MFJ-949E tuner with the built in balun. I have a hard time tuning in 160 meter and can only do it on low power. I run a Yaesu FT-450 barefoot and usually no more than 90 watts just to be nice to it.
I have no troubles pulling in weak signals, have made many contacts into western Europe as far as Moscow once. Honestly did Austria on 5 watts the other morning, on ssb and not digital where weak signals are easier.

For the relatively low cost of the twin lead? I would try that

 

[W5LZ]

If you're speaking only about noise, then both coax and parallel feed lines are subject to the same noises, one wouldn't be particularly 'better' than the other. If you are talking about other characteristics of coax or parallel feed lines, then each has it's 'good' ones and 'bad' ones. Mostly a choice of which characteristics each has that you want to make use of. Parallel feed lines are a little bit more trouble to use, they just aren't as common as coax feed lines so the 'how' to use them isn't as common knowledge, gotta do some 'digging' to find out how to use them correctly.
I happen to like using parallel feed lines. I have the equipment to use it (tuner/balun) so that isn't a huge thing. It isn't as prone to damage from electrical things, higher SWR, as coax feed lines are. And depending on the tuner/balun, parallel feed lines can be beneficial for multi-band antennas, or for extremely long runs to an antenna, or for use with some really 'odd' things used as an antenna. Parallel feed lines are not 'miracle workers' though, they have limitations. those limitations are just different than coax feed lines, which can be beneficial at times.
- 'Doc

(and it's cheaper!)