Is this what receive alignment means ?

[Robb]

'Faster' pitch sound means they are at a lower off freq than you; 'slower' pitch sound means they are higher off freq than you.

 

[Limeybastard]

It doesn't take much of a frequency shift to effect the pitch of received voice communications, and even the fancy pants ham rigs ain't perfect.

On another note you'll hear a lot of arguments on the air about who's off frequency, try not to get involved in that stuff. Learning to use a clarifier is a part of the game, AM is the place to be if you just want to select a channel and talk.

Cheers, luckily never had much of a conversation let alone get into a debate over this , too old for that nonsense to be honest.

Just one more question if I may, so going back to the frequencies I mentioned above, if I were to transmit on 273848 then Id actually be transmitting on that, I get it, but if user was on 273850 then they wouldnt hear me? Just asking for educational purposes.

 

[StrangeBrew]

If you're close enough they'll hear you but you'll get the changes in audio you're experiencing above.

When you see discussions on "hi-fi" cb you'll notice they are usually throwing numbers in the range of up to 4 or 5 kHz around, this number is the freqency that the audio energy is transmitted at in relation to the carrier. If your audio bandwidth is about 4kHz that means that you are transmitting at your carrier frequency +/- 4kHz for a total of 8kHz on AM or 4kHz total on SSB as only the plus or the minus but not both are transmitted. A 1kHz audio tone would be 1kHz away from the carrier, a 2kHz tone would be 2kHz away from the carrier. The closer the modulated power is to the carrier the lower the pitch, the farther from the carrier the higher the pitch.

Now if you are transmitting on 27.3848 and transmit a 2000Hz (2kHz) tone on AM you will have power going out at 27.3848 (your carrier) as well as spikes at 27.3868 (2000Hz tone on USB) and 27.3828 (2000Hz tone on LSB). On SSB the carrier and one of the sidebands audio tone would be filtered out and not transmitted.

Now if he was listening at the same frequency a 2,000Hz tone would sound like 2,000Hz because it is 2,000Hz away from the carrier his receiver is generating. With him being on 27,3850 the carrier being generated in his receiver is 200Hz higher than the one used by your transmitter, as a result the frequency of the audio tones as perceived by his receiver will change. On USB the 27.3868 spike will be 1,800Hz above his receivers center frequency and sound lower in pitch, on LSB the 27.3828 spike will be 2,200Hz away from his center frequency and sound higher in pitch. If his center frequency is far enough away from yours that it puts your transmitted power outside of his receivers filter bandwidth he won't hear you at all.

Or something like that.

 

[M0GVZ]

IF the clarifier is unlocked; then it will be on the same RX freq as the TX freq.

Most stupid idea ever. Both parties just end up chasing each other up and down 10kHz.

 

[Paul-W5lz]

A 'clarifier' is a means of shifting the received frequency slightly to better understand a transmitter that isn't on the same frequency you are. It's the same as a 'RIT' (receiver incremental tuner) on ham radios. If the clarifier is 'locked', meaning that the transmit frequency is fixed, doesn't change with the clarifier's shift, then it can certainly make things easier to listen to. If that transmitter's frequency changes along with that clarifier's shift in received frequency, as was said earlier, the two stations are going to be going up/down the band chasing each other.
So what do you do? Do, or have your transmitter and receiver -calibrated- correctly. Then you know YOU are on frequency and the other guy isn't. Let him fix his stuff.
Paul

 

[nomadradio]

So, for a channel-selector type radio with 10 kHz channel steps only, leaving the radio stock will produce a radio with a random transmit frequency. The trimpot inside the radio can be set only so close to being perfectly on frequency. A two-way conversation is no problem. You just tune each other in with your receive-only clarifiers.

But as soon as a third party tries to join the conversation he'll be twisting his clarifier back and forth each time a different station keys up.

This is what would prompt the old-time "SSB club" guys to run you off of "their" channel if your radio was "stuck" on the wrong transmit frequency. You would be greeted with cries of "Get your radio fixed, and come back then". The alternative was for everyone on the channel to "re-clarify" to YOUR transmit frequency. Never heard those guys volunteer to do that.

The ability to line up four or five stations all on the same transmit frequency is no trick with a VFO-controlled ham radio. But to do it with a channel-selector type radio, you need to unlock the clarifier.

I prefer to call it "locking" the clarifier's transmit frequency to the receiver frequency. A stock legal 40-channel SSB radio is "unlocked" in this sense.

Yeah, semantics.

Bottom line, if you carry on a conversation with more than one station on the same frequency, life is simpler if you don't have to twist a fine-tune knob separately each time a different station keys up.

And if you have a radio that tunes in 1/10-kHz steps, just select a frequency that sounds best with the receive-only clarifier at 12 o'clock. Most SSB operators don't seem to get much closer than 100 Hz to start with. No point to "unlocking" the receive-only fine-tune on a radio like a 2950 where you can tune in 100-Hz steps.

73

 

[Robb]

I prefer any radio to have an unlocked clarifier.

 

[fourstringburn]

I say it's best to keep your clarifiers LOCKED! If you can't check your TX frequency for accuracy yourself, have someone who is knowledgeable do it for you. People on 11 meters are all over the place anyhow.

Let other people tune to you. Otherwise as M0VGZ said, with unlocked clarifiers you'll be chasing each other all over the place!

You can clarify them if needed but keep YOUR TX frequency consistent.

The RCI2900 series are VFO tuning so you can " slide between channels". That was typically why people would unlock clarifiers anyway because with typical CB's,you couldn't get there otherwise.

The VFO lower range on the 2900 series is 100 Hz so this isn't the best for clarifying TX/RX.

A 7 digit frequency counter with the tuning step down to10 Hz would be more useful and practical with a VFO tuning radio.

 

[bob85]

Robb,
the faster slower effect reverses when you change to the opposite sideband,

clarifiers can be controversial, folk have strong opinions about it,
unlocked over here means TX & RX move together, we unlock the TX side to track the RX,

of course its better to have TX & RX track together,
no cb radio is stable on frequency regardless of what inexperienced people think,

i invented twin shift many years ago so that we could all talk in a group on our cobra 148 gtl dx's
without issues like the coarse slipping back in the notch and everybody arguing about whos on and whos off frequency, IT WORKED,

it does not matter if the group are on the correct ch frequency so long as everybody is on the same frequency, that's impossible with locked clarifiers,

people who think clarifiers should be locked don't have not much experience of talking on ssb in a group/round table or their ears are faulty,

its not fool proof because some people just can't tune into somebodys voice correctly, they are tone/pitch deaf

on average unlocked clarifiers means anybody who's ears work correctly will be on the same frequency,

anybody who's ears don't work correctly can at least be guided to the same frequency as the group so that everybody is not either turning their clarifier all the time or sat listening to half the group off frequency,

chasing each other up and down is often cited as the reason to leave clarifiers locked,
it is a myth that does not happen in practice, the opposite is true,

when there are just two people only one of them need tune in,

listen to 385 when skip is running,
that shitstorm of people all over the shop on frequency is the result of people been able to move RX without moving their TX.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Maybe back in my 11m days we had better techs but we ALL ran unlocked clarifiers and NOBODY chased ANYBODY up and down the band. When someone tuned into someone else they were just as clear on the other end as they were on their own end. Clarifiers were originally unlocked from the factory until new regulations came out when the band was expanded to 40 channels. Today when unlocking a clarifier a decent tech MUST make sure the TX tracks with the RX and if it does there is NO problem. Hell I used to set them up by ear in my early days and they were close enough to not be able to tell if it was off a few Hz or not. It's not rocket science to make it work properly but you have to at least make the effort.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Robb,
the faster slower effect reverses when you change to the opposite sideband,

clarifiers can be controversial, folk have strong opinions about it,
unlocked over here means TX & RX move together, we unlock the TX side to track the RX,

of course its better to have TX & RX track together,
no cb radio is stable on frequency regardless of what inexperienced people think,

i invented twin shift many years ago so that we could all talk in a group on our cobra 148 gtl dx's
without issues like the coarse slipping back in the notch and everybody arguing about whos on and whos off frequency, IT WORKED,

it does not matter if the group are on the correct ch frequency so long as everybody is on the same frequency, that's impossible with locked clarifiers,

people who think clarifiers should be locked don't have not much experience of talking on ssb in a group/round table or their ears are faulty,

its not fool proof because some people just can't tune into somebodys voice correctly, they are tone/pitch deaf

on average unlocked clarifiers means anybody who's ears work correctly will be on the same frequency,

anybody who's ears don't work correctly can at least be guided to the same frequency as the group so that everybody is not either turning their clarifier all the time or sat listening to half the group off frequency,

chasing each other up and down is often cited as the reason to leave clarifiers locked,
it is a myth that does not happen in practice, the opposite is true,

when there are just two people only one of them need tune in,

listen to 385 when skip is running,
that shitstorm of people all over the shop on frequency is the result of people been able to move RX without moving their TX.

Roundtables on SSB are a bitch with locked clarifiers. Everytime a different person keys up everybody else has to shift the knob to tune them in. You are correct about the fallacy of wobbling all over the band with UNLOCKED clarifiers.

 

[fourstringburn]

Robb,
the faster slower effect reverses when you change to the opposite sideband,

clarifiers can be controversial, folk have strong opinions about it,
unlocked over here means TX & RX move together, we unlock the TX side to track the RX,

of course its better to have TX & RX track together,
no cb radio is stable on frequency regardless of what inexperienced people think,

i invented twin shift many years ago so that we could all talk in a group on our cobra 148 gtl dx's
without issues like the coarse slipping back in the notch and everybody arguing about whos on and whos off frequency, IT WORKED,

it does not matter if the group are on the correct ch frequency so long as everybody is on the same frequency, that's impossible with locked clarifiers,

people who think clarifiers should be locked don't have not much experience of talking on ssb in a group/round table or their ears are faulty,

its not fool proof because some people just can't tune into somebodys voice correctly, they are tone/pitch deaf

on average unlocked clarifiers means anybody who's ears work correctly will be on the same frequency,

anybody who's ears don't work correctly can at least be guided to the same frequency as the group so that everybody is not either turning their clarifier all the time or sat listening to half the group off frequency,

chasing each other up and down is often cited as the reason to leave clarifiers locked,
it is a myth that does not happen in practice, the opposite is true,

when there are just two people only one of them need tune in,

listen to 385 when skip is running,
that shitstorm of people all over the shop on frequency is the result of people been able to move RX without moving their TX.

That's your opinion.

With real HF radios, I can and have run in roundtables and nets night after night and rarely get someone off enough where we have to tune them in.

Your comment about lacking experience on SSB is totally wrong and naive in regards to being indifferent to you.

You probably notice the ham guys are usually in agreement about not modifying the clarifiers and the CBers are usually for it,

Yet who are the ones that are off usually off frequency?

You can have a 148 or 2950 and align it to be fairly accurate. Therefore let everybody tune to you and even if both or all your TX frequencies are off, that means you or they need an alignment or better radio.

All of you need to Stop doing hack mods on your radios and align it correctly or get a better radio, debate solved !

 

[bob85]

I am an amateur fourstring & owned repaired aligned many dozens of HF VHF UHF sets of my own and other peoples,
rest assured I never need to take my radios for alignment,

that changes nothing, we are talking about CB radios,

No I have not noticed that its mainly amateurs that think clarifiers should be locked because that's not true either as evidenced in this thread
What I notice is people that understand radio and people that don't,

its been explained by more than one person, I can't help you if you don't understand it,

I'm OK with that.

 

[fourstringburn]

its been explained by more than one person, I can't help you if you don't understand it,

I do understand stand it. Re-read post 23, I explained well from the CB point if view.

You also prove what we say, if you have to modify your radio just to talk on frequency, you need a better radio or a real Tech.

I can't help it if you don't understand that.

I'm ok with that too.

 

[StrangeBrew]

Now that we're all OK how about a group hug.