I would like to hear more about this, also a short list of the sources you used for info when putting this together would be nice.
Nice to see something different now and then.
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Stacking three A99`s
- Thread starter murdog
- Start date
I would like to hear more about this, also a short list of the sources you used for info when putting this together would be nice.
Nice to see something different now and then.
I would like to hear more about this, also a short list of the sources you used for info when putting this together would be nice.
Nice to see something different now and then.
Its common enough in the amateur world and there are plenty of articles which cover them better than a post on here would but antenna distances need to be exact so do the coax lengths feeding them because its all about the phasing so its uber-critical. Its not one of those things where you can try and squeeze it into a smaller space.
That's one reason I asked for more info.
Most of what I'm seeing with google searches says 1/4 wave apart, radioreddz seems to have went with a full wave. I was wondering if radioreddz knows something google doesn't.
Also another question that google hasn't answered, will feeding them all in phase give an omni pattern?
Google does not know anything about anything. People with web pages that Google accesses know things.
1/4 wave spacing is not a hard and fast rule however if you change the spacing you must also change the phase delay line length to compensate and ensure that each element gets fed at the proper time as compared to the others.Some bedtime reading with all the phased array info you would want.
http://www.w8ji.com/tx_four_square.htm
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0ahUKEwj6lsa7hp7MAhUkt4MKHfUYDswQFggzMAQ&url=http://www.dxengineering.com/pdf/acb-4-a-series-rev1.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGLAydT-D9N_9OfuJQH6Y44H2ra-w&cad=rja
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0ahUKEwj6lsa7hp7MAhUkt4MKHfUYDswQFghKMAg&url=http://www.ov-n15.de/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/en_ver_final4-sq_03_04_15.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEmNiCKzvH0Nn5B9_DePhScuLjjEQ&cad=rja
ADD to that list ON4UN low band dxing books, several in print and the Christman forced current method of phasing.
Would not hurt to have a good ARRL antenna book hands also, and a calculator.
https://www.eznec.com/Amateur/Articles/Simpfeed.pdf
http://home.earthlink.net/~w6rmk/antenna/phased/christman.htm
Would not hurt to have a good ARRL antenna book hands also, and a calculator.
https://www.eznec.com/Amateur/Articles/Simpfeed.pdf
http://home.earthlink.net/~w6rmk/antenna/phased/christman.htm
John has some good info in his Low Band DXing books. I have a couple editions in my shack. They are usually for 40m and down but things can be scaled for whatever band you want really. Speaking of John, ON4UN, I worked him a number of years ago. 20m I think it was . BIG signal from Belgium but he does have a rather decent antenna farm.
If I'm reading this stuff right it looks like you can have good directional gain and good omni performance from one antenna system, should be quite a capable one stop solution if set up right (for a single band of course). At the very least it will make for some good reading when I have more time to kill, I'll have to save these links for future reference.
Thanks for the replies.
Thanks for the replies.
CK I have talked to a few ops who have worked ON4UN, all said he has a BIG signal. I have never worked him.
His low band DX book got me interested and was one of the reason I purchased a 100MHZ O scope so I can see the phase difference on the phasing harness, I had a lot of fun learning and building that 40 meter steerable phased array.
My son did not think it was fun helping me lay hundreds of ground radials but after it was all said and done I could steer my signal into EU and with a flip of a switch steer it in to S Pacific.
I could not put up a full size yagi for 40 so the ground mounted phased array was next best thing.
Later I got a Mosley PRO67B with two elements active on 40 meters so down came the phased array.
They do work but don't expect yagi performance from phased verticals
His low band DX book got me interested and was one of the reason I purchased a 100MHZ O scope so I can see the phase difference on the phasing harness, I had a lot of fun learning and building that 40 meter steerable phased array.
My son did not think it was fun helping me lay hundreds of ground radials but after it was all said and done I could steer my signal into EU and with a flip of a switch steer it in to S Pacific.
I could not put up a full size yagi for 40 so the ground mounted phased array was next best thing.
Later I got a Mosley PRO67B with two elements active on 40 meters so down came the phased array.
They do work but don't expect yagi performance from phased verticals
We used to use one on 40m and 80m at our club in RSGB Field Day and IOTA contests until we ran out of enough volunteers for antenna erection as you couldn't put them up until 24hrs before the start of the Field Days and it took a lot of manpower to put everything up. They each ran into a control box so you could steer the array.
Guess nobody has an example of a 5/8 wave 4 square. Yes I know the 1/4 waves on the lower bands.
5/8 wavelength antennas will work fine. A four square array is based on phasing. Antenna length is not a major factor when phasing is involved. The resulting pattern will be the same. The potential biggest issue will be getting them tuned, although that should just be a matter of tuning them individually to be as close as possible to each other. Use an antenna analyzer, not just an SWR meter for said tuning.
Weather the antennas be 1/4, 1/2 or 5/8 wavelengths, the amount of gain over a single antenna of the same type will be the same.
The DB
Weather the antennas be 1/4, 1/2 or 5/8 wavelengths, the amount of gain over a single antenna of the same type will be the same.
The DB
It sounds like a practical nightmare to stack 3 verticals. I appreciate some people are into this simply because you can, that's fine of course, whatever floats your boat.
Would it be significantly better than a Gain Master on the top of the pole in practice ? Or an extremely well set up high quality 5/8 wave ? Or a 3/4 type ?
Seems like 3 x as many potential issues as well. 3 x the coaxial losses.
5.4dB ?
http://www.dx-antennas.com/Stacking.htm
I would not bother myself (but that is me of course and you are not me) and put a nice omni up top with superb coax and spend time ensuring the VSWR was the lowest obtainable.
As an aside and I quote from the above article:
"In my case I still need a few of those Pacific DXCC so the best solution for me would be: to place a high big single yagi and put my money more in the height of the antenna then the antenna it self. (according the ARRL the main angle under which pacific is coming through is around 2 degrees, Europe is around the 20 degrees for me and Africa about 10 degrees.) I've I was a contester and participated in a African contest a stack would be a better solution for me."
Interesting to note that DX can be coming in at a mere 2 degrees...wow...almost directly at the horizon. That is when a clear empty sight line between the horizon and your antenna is going to pay dividends. I would focus on using an antenna that can see that aperture. A very good omni, well set up, at great height (you have good mast height) may just well see that. Given what I have managed myself on a £100.00 Chinese 10-12M radio I would go with a Gain Master, that antenna works the longest DX distances extremely well even on one of the cheapest HF radios you can use.
For all the theory, proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Would it be significantly better than a Gain Master on the top of the pole in practice ? Or an extremely well set up high quality 5/8 wave ? Or a 3/4 type ?
Seems like 3 x as many potential issues as well. 3 x the coaxial losses.
5.4dB ?
http://www.dx-antennas.com/Stacking.htm
I would not bother myself (but that is me of course and you are not me) and put a nice omni up top with superb coax and spend time ensuring the VSWR was the lowest obtainable.
As an aside and I quote from the above article:
"In my case I still need a few of those Pacific DXCC so the best solution for me would be: to place a high big single yagi and put my money more in the height of the antenna then the antenna it self. (according the ARRL the main angle under which pacific is coming through is around 2 degrees, Europe is around the 20 degrees for me and Africa about 10 degrees.) I've I was a contester and participated in a African contest a stack would be a better solution for me."
Interesting to note that DX can be coming in at a mere 2 degrees...wow...almost directly at the horizon. That is when a clear empty sight line between the horizon and your antenna is going to pay dividends. I would focus on using an antenna that can see that aperture. A very good omni, well set up, at great height (you have good mast height) may just well see that. Given what I have managed myself on a £100.00 Chinese 10-12M radio I would go with a Gain Master, that antenna works the longest DX distances extremely well even on one of the cheapest HF radios you can use.
For all the theory, proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Last edited:
It sounds like a practical nightmare to stack 3 verticals. I appreciate some people are into this simply because you can, that's fine of course, whatever floats your boat.
Would it be significantly better than a Gain Master on the top of the pole in practice ? Or an extremely well set up high quality 5/8 wave ? Or a 3/4 type ?
Seems like 3 x as many potential issues as well. 3 x the coaxial losses.
5.4dB ?
http://www.dx-antennas.com/Stacking.htm
I would not bother myself (but that is me of course and you are not me) and put a nice omni up top with superb coax and spend time ensuring the VSWR was the lowest obtainable.
As an aside and I quote from the above article:
"In my case I still need a few of those Pacific DXCC so the best solution for me would be: to place a high big single yagi and put my money more in the height of the antenna then the antenna it self. (according the ARRL the main angle under which pacific is coming through is around 2 degrees, Europe is around the 20 degrees for me and Africa about 10 degrees.) I've I was a contester and participated in a African contest a stack would be a better solution for me."
Interesting to note that DX can be coming in at a mere 2 degrees...wow...almost directly at the horizon. That is when a clear empty sight line between the horizon and your antenna is going to pay dividends. I would focus on using an antenna that can see that aperture. A very good omni, well set up, at great height (you have good mast height) may just well see that. Given what I have managed myself on a £100.00 Chinese 10-12M radio I would go with a Gain Master, that antenna works the longest DX distances extremely well even on one of the cheapest HF radios you can use.
For all the theory, proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Well thanx to all the reply`s and in put , I have talked with someone in the past that had three A99`s up and they where happy with them so I am going to give it a try and with the in put ppl have add`d it will help .
It`s that time of year to get the outside projects done .
It`s that time of year to get the outside projects done .
The psychological gain alone of stacking three A99's must be worth at least 10 or 12 dB even if the actual antenna gain is only 2-3 dB at best.
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