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What large ground mounted vertical monpole antenna? 5/8.. 3/4 etc.

222, I hope you kept some measurements you made during construction.

I am curious what is the overall length of your radiator from the very bottom, below the radial hub, up to the tip of L-3, not including the top hat ball.
 
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I didn't. But can measure them when I pull antenna down to tune gamma match. I went pretty well by sirio' guide and it was pretty close. The gamma match is all that was off. It is very touchy, the gamma match that is. But yes I will measure all parts and make a list. No problem sir. Give me a few days. Most likely this weekend. Have a good one and thx again for all the help from everyone! I like this antenna a lot!!
 
Okay the vector 4000 is up. Need to get analyzer on it and re adjust the gamma match a bit. It shows at the moment on channel 1, 1.1:1, and 40 is 1.2:1. I know, I know it's good, but I want it best it can be and I know it's got to be adjusted for where I talk more which is upper part of 11 meters. Anyway here are a few pics. Heat shrink used on all connections as well as no-ox. Antenna went together easily. Adjusting it is a bit harder without analyzer LOL. But it is up at near 30ft to feed point. Here are some pics.

Wow that looks huge ! Great installation, the cone part looks much, much bigger in your photos compared to the Sirio instruction guide.

With a SWR like that I don't think you need to change much. Sirio's instructions are accurate in my experience, why wouldn't they be? They have some very advanced antenna analysis equipment available. I just follow them to the T.

No doubt they must have checked the VECTOR4K out on their top end modeling software and in their RF an echoic chamber to get the performance right on the money.

That is going to blast out.
 
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Yes once gamma match is set correctly I beleive it will be perfect. As it stands locally within a couple miles, station reports are 2 s-unit gain going channel 40 to channel 1 on 11 meter band. So gamma match needs to be fine tuned I would venture to say. I've already moved the top whip in so that part should be done. Just a small bit of adjustment I think is all that will be needed. Fingers crossed. And I need to write all dimensions down as well. Help others possibly. Anyway. Keep at it man. Hopefully we will talk soon on air.(y):)
 
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Yes once gamma match is set correctly I beleive it will be perfect. As it stands locally within a couple miles, station reports are 2 s-unit gain going channel 40 to channel 1 on 11 meter band. So gamma match needs to be fine tuned I would venture to say. I've already moved the top whip in so that part should be done. Just a small bit of adjustment I think is all that will be needed. Fingers crossed. And I need to write all dimensions down as well. Help others possibly. Anyway. Keep at it man. Hopefully we will talk soon on air.(y):)

It is hard to believe that you are getting that much of a change in gain in such a narrow bandwidth, especially for an antenna that is known to be very wide banded. That being said, assuming what you are saying is true, changing the gamma won't have any effect on where maximum gain is, all the gamma does is match the antenna to the feedline. If you want to move the maximum gain point of the antenna you need to physically adjust the dimensions of the antenna itself. That is the only way to change the gain characteristics of the antenna...

That being said, it is plausible with that antenna design to make adjustments that affect gain, both local and dx signal strengths. I have done it with modeling surface waves and far field gain in 4NEC2, and multiple people on this forum have done experiments with live sigma/vector style antennas (some of them homemade clones) and reported the same thing. Their process was adjusting the physical dimensions of the antenna and then tuning the gamma match to compensate for the impedance change. In those tests they changed the physical length of the antenna as well as the height of the ring. I don't recall anyone changing the diameter of the ring itself, which modeling suggests would have as much of an effect if not more than simply changing the antenna's length, and the height of the ring.

Another question, how do you know if it is your antenna or the remote antenna that is responsible for the difference in gain between the two tested frequencies reported by your s-meter? Is it possible to be caused by the remote site's system? Considering this possibility, is it possible that your antenna has a flat gain curve and the difference is the station on the far end of the connection? Have you done this same test with multiple different stations to confirm that it is your station that has this effect?

Assuming you have ruled out the far station as the cause of this change in gain over this frequency range (essentially by duplicating this same test with multiple stations), does the reported difference in s-units across the band peak inside the frequency range measured, or does it peak at a frequency that is higher than tested?

You can just throw these antennas up and simply tune impedance, or you can put in the work that others have done and tune these antennas for performance. Every report I've seen by people who have taken the time to dial these antennas in claim that as far as local distance is concerned these antennas are as good as it gets. That being said, I can count on one hand with fingers left over the number of people who have taken the time to do just that and reported on it... It is one of many experiments I still intend to do with antennas.


The DB
 
DB, I have not placed the analyzer on it yet. Had to go get it. I am going to drop antenna back down and will then go from there. I've only tuned for VSWR using a radio shack meter, so it may be a bit off. But I will get it right. The mast is easy enough to drop and work on antenna. Also I have several ferrites at the feedpoint and idk if this is having an affect on antennas performance as well. But all info if appreciated and is taken very seriously!! I wI'll keep everyone updated. I am confident I'll get it resolved with all the help I get here!!! And it's all appreciated very much. Have a great one.
 
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And I have no issue putting in the work to make it right. Like I said, analyzer is now in my hands and will be placed at feedpoint for testing. I'll get it right. Might take me some time but I'll get it done.
 
Again thx for pointing me in the right direction. I've not installed many base antennas so this is kind of new to me. I'll adjust the length of the poles to the hoop down a bit. I'll have to check the manual. I thought I had it all marked correctly. Maybe not. If I am off its by maybe 1/4" or so?? Not truly sure but I do want to get it right. And I now understand what you mean about the rx station. I had 2 stations tell me I was up on meter from 40 to 1. Once analyzer is on the antenna I'll have a much better idea of what I need to do. Like I said, with the guidance and assistance here I know it will be resolved. Too many good gents here to let me fail and too much info as well!! Just need take it all in and make it happen (y)
 
Great you are going to sort this 222 but I am glad I have not got one for mobile static now.:eek: seems like it would be a right hassle putting that up and down. Then again I suppose once you have it right you could mark it up.

I think it is a hard one for a temp station nonetheless.

(PS I popped out for 2 hours and spoke to 2RR709 Massachusets and a 9 div station 1/2 wave Silver Rod 4 feet from ground strapped to a wooden fence post by the the roadside, small country lane, a nice quickie QSO)
 
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I post here as I suspect amateurs will have greater knowledge about ground mounting performance... when I say ground mounting I mean 4 feet from the ground on a single small pole:

What antenna would you choose from the following and due to which technical principle.?

Sirio 2016
Vector4000
Sirio 827

I would also consider US based options, Penetrators/MACO's etc.

(Would I be correct in assuming an antenna with many/large ground planes would be a good idea ?)

Thanks
Hi RD. Take a look at my album on this site. It's a modified 2016
 
Alright. Got the vector 4000 dialed in now. R=50, X=0, vswr, 1:1. Doesn't get any better than that I suppose. Now to get it back up. I'll take good measurements before I do Marconi! And again to everyone that has helped me along the way!! This is one heck of an antenna once dialed in. My local thought I was back up to height, I was only about 8ft off the ground LOL! Big thanks to both The DB, Marconi, and NeedleBender!! And to the rest of you Gents that kept me motivated too!! Hope to catch you on the air soon there RadioDaze!! Maybe this weekend if conditions and time allow. Have a good one to all!!
 
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Tell us what adjustments you made.

Did you get the center frequency up where you wished?

What is your 2.00:1 SWR bandwidth at the antenna?

Did you check with the analyzer at the radio end too?

Let us know if your match changes any on raising, OK?

See if you can get some signal reports down low and then compare the same signals after raising it up.

You're doing your work and telling us about it...gets me excited to do the same...if I still could.

Good luck on raising.
 
Yes I did Marconi, I adjusted the cone ring to have a 1/2" overlap. I moved the upper portion of the cone ring poles up to 51.5", and I lowered the whip to 26 1/4". And lastly I adjusted the gamma match a bit. This made antenna resonant at 27.400 or there abouts with the readings i gave above. Vswr stayed at about 1.3:1 on channel 1 and goes to channel 27.555 with the same vswr. Never made it to 2:1 vswr, but will get some more readings tomorrow. R and X change a bit but not bad like before. Much more wide banded it seems. At radio all is same. I'll get all dimensions up Marconi, including the length of the gamma match whip. I was just too tired to mess with it anymore. Need to place back up in the air and all should be good. I spoke with a different local and he too was impressed that the antenna was only 7-8ft off the ground. Said I had best signal I've had to him ever. This is the opposite way of my other local that said the same. I came up now on the upper channels ans from 1 to 40 the signal reports now stay the same. Again I thank all of you for the help and will get the antenna dimensions all posted as well. Now I'm happy with the antenna, and pleased with myself for getting it right. Took some time, but I kept on thinking what The DB said to me and it stuck. Changing physical dimensions was totally what was needed. And I was totally prepared to go the distance to resolve it. Wasn't as easy as tuning my tornado, can see why some would be intimidated by this antenna. But I am hear to tell you that if you take your time and follow the instructions and have some good help it will go much smoother. No mention of the 1/2" overlap anywwhere, and also the length for the gamma match, the formula they give makes no sense to me. See photo below for reference as to what I am speaking of. Anyone care to explain this one to me. I had a hell of a time tuning gamma match, but was able to get it. It's very touchy and doesn't take much movement when it's close. Just my experience so far. I still need to fill in the length for L2, but will do that tomorow. Here are the rest of the measurements I used for tuning to 27.400MHz.
Hope this helps. The rest of the antenna just slides together and screws to hold in place. This is where I used heat shrink and also I used no-ox on all connections and also a very light coat over entire antenna. Makes the water just bead right off. Anyway. Again I hope this info helps someone. It helped me a bunch. Thx again fellas!!
 

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Great job 222DBFL.. now sit back key up and marvel : ) Maybe you will have to do an analysis every 3-6 months or so to see if it is all tuned up as you expect if it is very sensitive. Maybe the wind might knock it out of perfect tune over time ? Anyway glad you nailed it, I hope to get out for a quick shout out on the radio later today with just a quick and dirty silver rod simple setup roadside.

Hi RD. Take a look at my album on this site. It's a modified 2016

I checked your photo's Cpt shakes, now that is what I call an elevated ground plane ! That must work sweet as a nut.
 
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Marconi, here are all the measurements besides the poles that are pre-measured. Photos attached.
 

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