My Lightning 6 Quad antenna

[chris.s]

Nice quad

Hi Drifter,the set-up looks great,I have had several of Anthony's quads up,started with the Superhawk than went to the 4 element White Lightning,he did not have the 4 plus at the time so after I sold the 4 I bought the 6,I had the cross peices welded to the boom and changed some of the hardware out for stainless stuff it was up around 55ft and worked great,I used to like it when you could DX when the other guys were'nt hearing anything at the time,I had it up for about 1yr the mother nature blessed us with an ice storm and that took care of quad,so know an A-99 cut for 10 meters and a Par loop for 6 are on the tower,good luck with the quad.

73s
Chris.s

 

[mr.trashman]

this is a great looking beam im in the market for one as well ,love the photos u took of the tower and beams , hope u are having a great time with them . hope to have mine soon for my birthday in december my treat to myself .by the way do they work well at 50-feet in the air need a great answer for this height im sitting at a high elevation already above the trees where i live in texas. thanks mr.trashman in txs

 

[Drifter]

this is a great looking beam im in the market for one as well ,love the photos u took of the tower and beams , hope u are having a great time with them . hope to have mine soon for my birthday in december my treat to myself .by the way do they work well at 50-feet in the air need a great answer for this height im sitting at a high elevation already above the trees where i live in texas. thanks mr.trashman in txs

Yes it will work at 50' Read here
SIGNAL ENGINEERING - The Evolution of High Performance CB Antennas

 

[dennis4040]

Thanks KJ4BAE, IMO the difference is due to the SE being a voltage fed antenna where the wire is continuous while the traditional quads are current fed and have the resonant wire joined together at an insulator. Your SuperHawk tuner is a bit different in design compared to Drifter’s L4+ or L6, because your SH’s boom is not long enough to appear as a resonant ground element for the feeder to work against, so SE adds this floating ground side wire parallel to the open ended feeder. IMO, this is a very efficient feeder that transitions the impedance very smoothly from the coax end directly into the radiator---transforming the high impedance radiator to that of the feed line, while this is basically end feeding a resonant ½ wave element. The other half of the quad also contributes to the radiation of any quad design, but that is difficult for me to describe.

Thanks for the confirmation Drifter. I believe you when you describe the interference issues you noticed in your yard. I tried to install my Long John 5 element at my location and I was never able to get a reasonable tune even tuning about 25’ high on a 18’ roof deck on my home. The antenna was overly sensitive to everything within 40’ - 50’ feet. Maybe if I could have raised it up to 40’ feet or more it would have worked fine. I ended up putting my 4 element back up and did not have the problem.

Can you describe for us what the new power upgrade is? This must be something new from SE.

Marconi, I have been scouring the internet for everything i can find regarding dual polarity quad beams, particularly the Lightning 4+. What is your opinion, are they as efficient as single polarity? Is tuning an issue? What about the discussion that rf is returning on the unselected coax? I consider you the guru, are they worthwhile in your opinion? I am most interested in local contacts and direct wave out to 200 miles not DX. thanks for your time. dennis dennis4040@yahoo.com

 

[Road Squawker]

... What about the discussion that rf is returning on the unselected coax?...

Well, just for the sake of clarity,...... what stops any RF from coming back down the coax in use?

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Marconi, I have been scouring the internet for everything i can find regarding dual polarity quad beams, particularly the Lightning 4+. What is your opinion, are they as efficient as single polarity? Is tuning an issue? What about the discussion that rf is returning on the unselected coax? I consider you the guru, are they worthwhile in your opinion? I am most interested in local contacts and direct wave out to 200 miles not DX. thanks for your time. dennis dennis4040@yahoo.com

Dual polarity antennas are simply two antennas at right angles. they are equally efficient as a single polarity unit and as for RF returning on the unused coax......never had that issue in all the years I ran dual polarity.

 

[nomadradio]

The coax shield is grounded to the antenna boom on this antenna.

Made me scratch my head the first time I saw one. The driven element is a continuous full-wave length of wire. It is fed as if it were two half-wavelength wires in parallel with each other. And that's what the "Signal Feed System" setup used by White Lightning does, is to step up the 50-ohm coax impedance to 300 ohms or more. More voltage, less current at a high impedance. Hence the term "voltage feed".

I dug up the patent for this antenna years ago. I'll see if I can locate it.

73

 

[Marconi]

I don't have a signal engineering patent per se, but if you check the US Patent site you can look up US 4236160 A, the patent for the loop driven element antenna system and voltage feed system. There are images that look just like images in the SE manual.

I'm not sure if the New owner of SE makes the kit the same as the original however.

https://www.google.com/patents/us4236160

 

[Road Squawker]

... the "Signal Feed System" setup used by White Lightning does, is to step up the 50-ohm coax impedance to 300 ohms or more...73

many antenna booms are at DC ground.

I've seen the patent............ nice play of words....
a 50 ohm coax is still 50 ohms, regardless of the loads impedance.
this is just a variation of a hairpin match

http://www.google.es/patents/US4236160?printsec=claims#v=onepage&q&f=false

if you read the parent carefully, you will see that all this "invention" does is to use tuned feedline stubs feed the elements.

by "optimum feed point" he is referring to feeding at a point to select vert or horiz polarization.

" A single feed line to the antenna can be provided by connecting the feed line to the optimum feed point for one of the loops by connecting in parallel a half-wavelength of feed line to the optimum feed point of the other loop"


Dual Switchable Polarization – All our Quad’s features exclusive “SFS” (Signal Feed System, patented) matching system gives maximum directional performance and dual polarity to allow switching between Horizontal and Vertical polarization

Don't get me wrong, these antennas do perform quite well, but,......... the written claims and/or descriptions are pure BS.
the actual patent has nothing to do with a new or different dual polarity feeding design. its the same concept as any other dual polarity quad; a different feedpoint @ 90 degrees.

 

[dennis4040]

Well, just for the sake of clarity,...... what stops any RF from coming back down the coax in use?

I'm a bit of a newbee here and it is great to see the response to this old original thread. I know from research that Marconi has been following these designs for years, thanks for the input Marconi, I appreciate it.
To answer your question Road Squawker. I believe proper tuning is what keeps RF from coming back down the coax? Am I close?

 

[dennis4040]

I don't have a signal engineering patent per se, but if you check the US Patent site you can look up US 4236160 A, the patent for the loop driven element antenna system and voltage feed system. There are images that look just like images in the SE manual.

I'm not sure if the New owner of SE makes the kit the same as the original however.

https://www.google.com/patents/us4236160

Marconi, thanks for your personal response to my inquiry. I appreciate it.
I have been thinking of putting up a dual polarity quad for about the last 4 years but have been sidetracked for several reasons. I am almost convinced that this is the best option for me. Even though I have never seen an EZnec model or even an analyzer sweep posted on the, net the empirical evidence of the SE quad performance is too great to ignore. I'm looking at the 4 element model.

I also need to consider the feasibility of installing this on the tower. I plan it to put it above a 19 element 2 meter yagi which is above a 5 element 20 meter yagi all on an 88 foot Rohn 45g mounted on a Voyager hazer.

I think I could carry it up a piece at a time and assemble it by sliding the boom back and forth and adding elements. I would need a supply of extra nuts and washers for sure I am 66 yo and don't mind the climbing and tedious assembly if I thought it would work well and be durable in Missouri winters. I don't want to have to do this too often.

I really appreciate the response here as I have only been a lurker and not really participated before.
thanks, dennis

 

[dennis4040]

Dual polarity antennas are simply two antennas at right angles. they are equally efficient as a single polarity unit and as for RF returning on the unused coax......never had that issue in all the years I ran dual polarity.

Thanks for the input and sharing your experience, it is very helpful and encouraging.

 

[dennis4040]

Hello all, I pulled the trigger on a Lightning L4+ today. I'm looking for input as to whether it is worthwhile to try to put my iMax above the quad. I can probably get it a maximum of 3' above the top of the diamond but I don't want to take a chance of deforming the quads pattern if this is a questionable practice. Any input is appreciated. thanks, dennis

 

[Marconi]

I also need to consider the feasibility of installing this on the tower. I plan it to put it above a 19 element 2 meter yagi which is above a 5 element 20 meter yagi all on an 88 foot Rohn 45g mounted on a Voyager hazer.

I think I could carry it up a piece at a time and assemble it by sliding the boom back and forth and adding elements. I would need a supply of extra nuts and washers for sure I am 66 yo and don't mind the climbing and tedious assembly if I thought it would work well and be durable in Missouri winters. I don't want to have to do this too often.

Hello all, I pulled the trigger on a Lightning L4+ today. I'm looking for input as to whether it is worthwhile to try to put my iMax above the quad. I can probably get it a maximum of 3' above the top of the diamond but I don't want to take a chance of deforming the quads pattern if this is a questionable practice. Any input is appreciated. thanks, dennis

While you're waiting for the antenna to arrive...start reading that manual and praying continuously.

 

[dennis4040]

While you're waiting for the antenna to arrive...start reading that manual and praying continuously.

Good idea, I think, but what should I be praying for

Do you have any ideas about the effect of placing my iMax 2000 above the L4+?
I've just about decided not to do it because of mechanical reasons and I don't want to take a chance of altering the pattern.
What do you think?