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Outdoor Loop
- Thread starter HomerBB
- Start date
What are you calling the elements?
I have discussed this (and other) antenna(s) on several forums and inevitably folks erroneously refer to the spreaders as elements.
If you want the length for the wires, which are the elements, I can tell you what they are when I am satisfied with my final tuning. The exact dimensions of the wires depends on the thickness as well as the resonant frequency one hopes to center their antenna. I am using #18 wire. With #12 the loop could be an inch or two shorter, or longer, based on the frequency you center, and where you are putting it up. I intend to center mine on 27.405. Many like to center them for ch 6, others ch 20. So if I have seemed vague in that respect it is because that it is up to the individual setting the antenna up. To that end I have spoken of the readily available quad calculators that are online. I even posted a photo of the dimensions of the driven element with readable info on it.
If you are referring to the spreaders, then you'll possibly note that this particular antenna permits sliding the ends in or out on the spreaders so whichever frequency one cuts the wire length for they are able to properly tension the wire on the loops.
I'll be only too happy to state the exact length of the wires for the center frequency when I'm done. I am so busy with other things, and dodging disintegrating weather looking for windows of opportunity to work on the antenna that I have been unable to complete this one with the rapidity I am accustomed to.
My apologies if I haven't seemed forthcoming with any info.
If you are simply wanting to do one yourself then I am in your cheering section. It is my hope that folks do just that because of encouragement from these threads.
Git 'ur dun.
due to recent political actions, I only shop at LOWES
No doubt Lowe's needs all the help they can get.
Keep your receipts for the charitable giving line of your tax file.
:laugh:
fill me in. whats going on politicaly with home depo?
i was refering to the wire elements.
good luck with the 18ga. in my opinion thats way to small to be strong enough to withstand harsh winters. id stay with 12ga. i wqas using home depo for the fact they are everywhere so if i got one tuned at a certain length and spacing other people could use that same wire and dial theres in easy with the same dimensions
i was refering to the wire elements.
good luck with the 18ga. in my opinion thats way to small to be strong enough to withstand harsh winters. id stay with 12ga. i wqas using home depo for the fact they are everywhere so if i got one tuned at a certain length and spacing other people could use that same wire and dial theres in easy with the same dimensions
Ok. I understand. I have the 18 gauge already. Unless we get a bad ice storm here it will do fine. We get high winds esp in the Spring, but I haven't had any trouble with light wire, yet.
As for the Lowe's political stuff, that was a carry-over topic from a different forum. It has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.
Homer what kind of 18ga is it? does it have insulation and is it stranded or solid? it isnt small car audio or lamp cord type with typical clear insulation is it?
I had solid steel wire on it, but I am changing it out. I have found steel wire useful on the indoor loops, but want something else for outdoors.
I will change it out tomorrow. I am using what I have at hand.
It is a bare fine stranded 18 gauge copper wire on the reflector.
I will change it out tomorrow. I am using what I have at hand.
It is a bare fine stranded 18 gauge copper wire on the reflector.
B
BOOTY MONSTER
Guest
how critical is wire gauge for a loop ? if someone used 8 gauge rather than 18 gauge but kept the length the same does it just change its tuned frequency up or down a few or several channels ? or does it change it closer to a half or whole MHz ? or even more ? does a larger wire provide wider bandwidth ?
8 gauge would be heavy and much more prone to sagging and effecting the loops shape ..... so i'm just asking in the context of element diameter effects , not the practically of using it . does larger diameter elements on a loop provide any benefits ? or detriments ?
8 gauge would be heavy and much more prone to sagging and effecting the loops shape ..... so i'm just asking in the context of element diameter effects , not the practically of using it . does larger diameter elements on a loop provide any benefits ? or detriments ?
Basic rule of thumb is the larger the diameter of the element, the more band width it has.
On a loop or quad this means very little as the spacing between the elements influences the band width more than the size of the element.
Size of wire? Just use what you have, it will work, from 24 gauge to 10 gauge.
Of course the lighter the gauge the less weight. Which in turns means lighter weight spreaders can be used and the whole antenna will weigh less.
As far as dimensions, it will all differ depending on height of installation, size of wire used, spacing of elements so forth and so on.
The nice thing about a quad is it is easy to get them to work, fine tuning can make them work well.
There are many quad calculators on line, java scripts, just put in the frequency and it will figure out the length.
Online Cubical Quad Antenna Calculator
Link to quad calculator.
some will use 4% for the reflector and driven elements as far as size larger or smaller, some will use 5%, either will work.
It is up to the builder to determine which one works best for their antenna and QTH.
Whatever the length of the wire used for the driven element it needs to remain exactly the same. do not cut the driven element to get it resonant, use the 75 ohm coax transformer or whatever means of impedance matching you want to use as the wire length needs to stay the same for it to be on the freq desired.
Quads are fun, and they do work well, they are quieter due to the full loop design, pick up less static. They also are 3 dimensional and need to be engineered from the ground up, including the tower or antenna support. They do catch the wind rather well.
For the price of a quad, ease of construction they are hard to beat.
On a loop or quad this means very little as the spacing between the elements influences the band width more than the size of the element.
Size of wire? Just use what you have, it will work, from 24 gauge to 10 gauge.
Of course the lighter the gauge the less weight. Which in turns means lighter weight spreaders can be used and the whole antenna will weigh less.
As far as dimensions, it will all differ depending on height of installation, size of wire used, spacing of elements so forth and so on.
The nice thing about a quad is it is easy to get them to work, fine tuning can make them work well.
There are many quad calculators on line, java scripts, just put in the frequency and it will figure out the length.
Online Cubical Quad Antenna Calculator
Link to quad calculator.
some will use 4% for the reflector and driven elements as far as size larger or smaller, some will use 5%, either will work.
It is up to the builder to determine which one works best for their antenna and QTH.
Whatever the length of the wire used for the driven element it needs to remain exactly the same. do not cut the driven element to get it resonant, use the 75 ohm coax transformer or whatever means of impedance matching you want to use as the wire length needs to stay the same for it to be on the freq desired.
Quads are fun, and they do work well, they are quieter due to the full loop design, pick up less static. They also are 3 dimensional and need to be engineered from the ground up, including the tower or antenna support. They do catch the wind rather well.
For the price of a quad, ease of construction they are hard to beat.
The difference in galvanized steel wire and multi-stranded copper is dramatic. The velocity factor between the two are as different as night and day. The galvanized steel wire has a low velocity factor, and the copper wire's velocity factor is much higher. That will change the effective length due to the delay of the flow of electrons @ the speed of light when comparing between thee two materials. In copper, there is little resistance to this flow. Stainless or cheap steel has a much slower rate.
Wave propagation speed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wave propagation speed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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B
BOOTY MONSTER
Guest
Nice quote, to bad it is comparing conductance of electrons through different types of metals instead of Radio Frequency transmitting.
At upper HF frequencies, IE 10 and 11 meters the "RF" will be on the outside of the conductor (wire). The electrons will not be flowing through the conductor.
Build a dipole out of copper wire, then build one out of stainless steel aircraft cable both of the same diameter. How much difference in measurements as far as length?
Some more work on the antenna.
The driven element is two 18 gauge stranded wires twisted into one.
The reflector is on a hub identical to the driven. The hub it was on is for a driven wire should I make this into a 3 element.
The driven element is two 18 gauge stranded wires twisted into one.
The reflector is on a hub identical to the driven. The hub it was on is for a driven wire should I make this into a 3 element.