Base Sirio New Vector 4000 Install

[Shadetree Mechanic]

I was just going through this and realized that I didn't show all the pictures.

Here is the completed bottom hinge.


The clamp I used to keep the cable from sliding down the pole is an electrical conduit beam clamp.


The first two mast sections for the hand crank winch function check.


View from the top of the big jungle gym out back.


Top cap and top clamp installed.

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

I got a 6 foot jumper of LMR 240 flex to make a choke. Five turns at 4.5 inches diameter right at the feed point. I also ran the coax down the inside of the mast pipe like I did on my Starduster. I figured this will help knock down the CMC and I guess it wouldn't hurt.

 

[JAF0]

I got a 6 foot jumper of LMR 240 flex to make a choke. Five turns at 4.5 inches diameter right at the feed point. I also ran the coax down the inside of the mast pipe like I did on my Starduster. I figured this will help knock down the CMC and I guess it wouldn't hurt.

View attachment 23939

I'd like to see a 4.25" diameter piece of gray PVC wrapped cleanly with 5 turns of the coax, side by each, then the PVC mounted on the mast, perpendicular to the mast, so neither end of the choke is near the metal of the mast or antenna, otherwise I fear it might be self-defeating to have it wrapped in such a flopsy manner and right up against the metal, as I see in your picture.

 

[Handy Andy]

How are your stations grounds done up - Antenna, being outside - what are you doing for arrestor stuff?

Good job though - are those 6 X 6 posts? How deep?

:+> Andy <+:

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

I'd like to see a 4.25" diameter piece of gray PVC wrapped cleanly with 5 turns of the coax, side by each, then the PVC mounted on the mast, perpendicular to the mast, so neither end of the choke is near the metal of the mast or antenna, otherwise I fear it might be self-defeating to have it wrapped in such a flopsy manner and right up against the metal, as I see in your picture.

When I was searching for info on this, I saw some really nice looking chokes wound on PVC like that. I thought about doing that and when I wound it up, it was hardly long enough without the form. Six feet is not enough by the time the connections are made. The way it hooked up to the antenna, it wanted to lay with the U bolt stud going through it and I wondered how much it would effect it. I just ordered a 10ft jumper of LMR400 flex to do it right. I will probably leave the PVC a little long so I can mount it with the choke about 4 inches away from the mast. I saw the MFJ 1:1 Balun and wonder if this does the same thing as the coax choke? I have power lines that run overhead in front of the house and I might get one to try if the theory about reducing noise has any merit.
https://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-915

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

How are your stations grounds done up - Antenna, being outside - what are you doing for arrestor stuff?

Good job though - are those 6 X 6 posts? How deep?

:+> Andy <+:

I forgot to show pictures of the station grounds. The ground rod is 6ft copper plated steel. The wire is 4awg bare stranded and is bolted to the bottom mast hinge. It also runs into the shack and I plan on tying the radio cases to it as soon as I mount the ground studs on the backs of the radios. The ground rod for the house electric is about 30 Ft away and I have read that I should tie into this ground rod too. Would this be correct? For the arrestor I have a few of those inline coax surge protectors but then I read that they really don't do much so I haven't put them in yet. When the station is not in use, I unhook the coax and put a barrel connector in the end and an alligator clip in the end to connect the conductor to the shield. The 6x6 post is 16ft long and 4ft in the ground. I wanted to find a used utility pole but I could not locate one.

 

[Handy Andy]

Any house ground can benefit from "Extra ground" especially when you have arid soil and/or poor soil conductivity. You'll have to ask the power company, but a lot of times they themselves use your homes' Cold Water Utility pipe for their house and home ground. So, if you wish, you can then "hook up" ground to your cold water pipe and avoid having them reinspect - because you'd have a disconnect point if they tell you no.

There's is an irony to the above: They GROUND their work to your house ground, but they don't always provide a good ground for their own 3-phase Neutral-Ground they supply you for your home - 120 single-phase or 220-240 for 2-pole - with 3rd leg neutral / ground. They Expect you to provide protection for their mistakes.
In some extreme and severe cases, the pole your feed comes from, can lose it's neutral connection due to a lighting strike or failed wiring or breaker. Which means your house may wind up providing neutral for the entire circuit the pole / branch services.​

So, leave their service mains alone, but you can use your own cold-water pipe as a common for the home common - because the Utilities (Gas and Electric) will use it anyways. So as far as common ground, cold water. Else use your antennas ground - and if needed - you can verify ground thru the electrical outlets. Don't connect your grounds to the cold-water ground outlets - unplug your station, just grab your coax. Check Neutral, and 3-wire Grounded check your station return, and your coax shield, to their return - if less than 2 ohms - you're all set - you have enough moisture and soil contact to afford at least a DC ground - This is for United States - your country will punish you differently...

:+> Andy <+:

 

[The DB]

Just a word of caution when using cold water pipes for your ground. You need to make sure their is continuity between where you attach to the pipe, and where said pipe goes to ground. Even with older houses, if they had issues at some point with their plumbing, sometimes said pipes have been replaces, in part, with PVC.

That being said, as long as you don't have a house with a floating ground system, like some newer houses in some countries in Europe, then adding more earth connections won't hurt anything. I would suggest connecting to both the existing earth ground system in your house, and adding one as close as possible to your shack. All earth grounds in your house should be electrically connected together, and if they are not you are not only going against code, but adding to potential problems should the worst happen.


The DB

 

[skylloga]

What Andy says about the power company not providing a ground with their service entrance is correct to a degree. The reason being is because you have to supply a ground for your electrical panel in the house. Which has to be connected to a 8ft ground rod with a continuous conductor from the cold water service entrance pipe to the panel and then to the ground rod. Running a ground from the power station several hundred/thousand feet or miles is pointless. Sense you have to ground your stuff also.

If you want to ground to the service ground rod and there is enough room on the ground rod to put another acorn clamp on then do it. It will not affect the service ground and can only enhance your ground if the house is interconnected to the water lines.

 

[JAF0]

When I was searching for info on this, I saw some really nice looking chokes wound on PVC like that. I thought about doing that and when I wound it up, it was hardly long enough without the form. Six feet is not enough by the time the connections are made. The way it hooked up to the antenna, it wanted to lay with the U bolt stud going through it and I wondered how much it would effect it. I just ordered a 10ft jumper of LMR400 flex to do it right. I will probably leave the PVC a little long so I can mount it with the choke about 4 inches away from the mast. I saw the MFJ 1:1 Balun and wonder if this does the same thing as the coax choke? I have power lines that run overhead in front of the house and I might get one to try if the theory about reducing noise has any merit.
https://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-915

Now I'm wondering if your antenna might not also benefit from a piece of that PVC around the top of the mast & around the base of the antenna so it would be fully isolated from radiating back down the mast, unless a minimum length of mast is required to allow finalized tuning of the NV4K.

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

The water pipes are plastic and we are on our own well so the water pipe coming into the house is plastic also. We have swampy clay soil so it should be a fairly good "ground". I might put a few more rods along the foundation of the house spaced 8 to 10 feet apart. It might help but couldn't hurt I guess. I will not tie into the house ground rod for now. It seems that if the house ground is conducting any current, it would be noisy?

I connected the radios and amps to the ground wire that is going into the shack. Seems to have helped a little with the background noise. I used 8awg from each unit and attached it to the 4awg coming into the shack. I put ground studs on the back of each unit and had to drill some holes. Luckily the Sonar already had a hole to use. I used stainless bolts, star washers and wing nuts to make it easier to switch things around in the future.

 

[Handy Andy]

Have you ever thought about using a copper pipe to route the Coax thru the rafter/joist/foundation to the outside, and terminate it in a tee fitting? The coax exits the tee and you have a separate copper pipe of 1/2" to 3/4" pounded into the ground - surrounding the ground rod as a sheath.

First, you need the pipe into the ground...

You keep the ground rod, but the copper pipe used would be a thick wall "M" and you solder a hose coupling onto the pipe - place the pipe over the ground rod (remove that clamp first) start pounding the pipe gently into the ground around the ground rod and using the hose - screw a hose onto the fitting - turn on the water. And use water as a means to make the cavity and allow the pipe to slide around the rod, you simply apply the downward force to put the pipe into the ground straight down..

(The above is if you can't remove the ground rod easily - this process was discussed in several ARRL handbooks in one fashion or another as a means to make an effective grounding for your station.

However, if the ground rod can be pulled and removed the pipe can take the place of it. You'll need at least a 10 foot pipe to get you at least 8 feet of that pipe below soil surface and a method to attach grounding clamps if you install arrestors or need radial grounds for image / counterpoise.

The Tee gives you the ability to route and keep the coax at earth ground potentials into the station and the pipe is your station ground for all equipment involved.

You can also use this method if you want multiple grounding locations - along the copper pipe route. You can even do up a trench to allow the copper pipe to route to the antenna with the coax inside - just ensure you have a breakpoint for the coax to be disconnected. somewhere along the line if you don't use the station for a period of time. Back at the Tee is best if the antenna is mounted separately and away from the common house grounding location - Galvanic and Electrolytic corrosion from eddy currents and dissimilar metal reductions as moisture and oxides form which can accelerate the corrosion process if left to itself.)​

Secondly you'll need to thread the coax thru the pipe. You can use sinkers and fishline or just a wire routed end to end in the pipes' initial route and fitting - keep your wire (like leftover stainless steel guy wire and thimble if needed...) inside it as you solder the pipe sections together - just leave some of the lead wire out of the pipe so you can break any solder "blebbling) that may pool along the fittings thru pulling.

The above is something I've done for my own station it's not hard but it isn't easy either - don't make it seem like work if you don't have to. Make it a fun experience - like installing lawn sprinkling - for RF energy...

Some would say it's overkill but again, a lightning strike can kill overtly as well.

You did ask...

:+> Andy <+:

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

Now I'm wondering if your antenna might not also benefit from a piece of that PVC around the top of the mast & around the base of the antenna so it would be fully isolated from radiating back down the mast, unless a minimum length of mast is required to allow finalized tuning of the NV4K.

I have heard of people doing that on other antennas, Marconi would be the one to ask maybe he can shed some light on this. I am just now able to think about the new coax choke on a PVC former. So much going on lately, its been a few days since I have been on the radio. I am off for the next two days so I will try to tip it down tomorrow morning before it gets too hot.
Chris

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

Have you ever thought about using a copper pipe to route the Coax thru the rafter/joist/foundation to the outside, and terminate it in a tee fitting? The coax exits the tee and you have a separate copper pipe of 1/2" to 3/4" pounded into the ground - surrounding the ground rod as a sheath.

First, you need the pipe into the ground...

You keep the ground rod, but the copper pipe used would be a thick wall "M" and you solder a hose coupling onto the pipe - place the pipe over the ground rod (remove that clamp first) start pounding the pipe gently into the ground around the ground rod and using the hose - screw a hose onto the fitting - turn on the water. And use water as a means to make the cavity and allow the pipe to slide around the rod, you simply apply the downward force to put the pipe into the ground straight down..

(The above is if you can't remove the ground rod easily - this process was discussed in several ARRL handbooks in one fashion or another as a means to make an effective grounding for your station.

However, if the ground rod can be pulled and removed the pipe can take the place of it. You'll need at least a 10 foot pipe to get you at least 8 feet of that pipe below soil surface and a method to attach grounding clamps if you install arrestors or need radial grounds for image / counterpoise.

The Tee gives you the ability to route and keep the coax at earth ground potentials into the station and the pipe is your station ground for all equipment involved.

You can also use this method if you want multiple grounding locations - along the copper pipe route. You can even do up a trench to allow the copper pipe to route to the antenna with the coax inside - just ensure you have a breakpoint for the coax to be disconnected. somewhere along the line if you don't use the station for a period of time. Back at the Tee is best if the antenna is mounted separately and away from the common house grounding location - Galvanic and Electrolytic corrosion from eddy currents and dissimilar metal reductions as moisture and oxides form which can accelerate the corrosion process if left to itself.)​

Secondly you'll need to thread the coax thru the pipe. You can use sinkers and fishline or just a wire routed end to end in the pipes' initial route and fitting - keep your wire (like leftover stainless steel guy wire and thimble if needed...) inside it as you solder the pipe sections together - just leave some of the lead wire out of the pipe so you can break any solder "blebbling) that may pool along the fittings thru pulling.

The above is something I've done for my own station it's not hard but it isn't easy either - don't make it seem like work if you don't have to. Make it a fun experience - like installing lawn sprinkling - for RF energy...

Some would say it's overkill but again, a lightning strike can kill overtly as well.

You did ask...

:+> Andy <+:

Do you think running the coax inside a copper pipe would make a difference since I am using LMR 400 which is double shielded? Interesting concept, if I used a 1 inch pipe I would be able to run the coax for the long wire antenna that I am planning and possibly two more for a beam antenna that I can't get out of my head? Or should the coax be kept separate? Would the pipe need to go all the way into the shack or just outside? Sorry for all the questions.
Chris

 

[Handy Andy]

Wow, you kinda went the other way - you got the double shield coax.

Well, that's ok, just disregard the post from me, but the real reason why I threw it out here in the first place was for remote grounding issues.

I saw your shack using STRANDED wire but have you thought about using SOLID conduit like the copper pipe instead. I was thinking not just DC ground but shielded RF ground and Ground radiation and phase (if rectification from re-radiated poorly shielded coax was not the phrase) interference issues from poorly shielded equipment or a noisy radio got into your stuff - this could help tame that.

The Pipe would be the ground buss back at the shack and your pipe would then be the shield for the coax routed inside - and if you ran into any electrical faults - at least the copper pipe - grounded to the outside would suffice the current carrying capacity and also provide a "Firebreak" incase the coax ever got perforated by accident or by the unthinkable - at least with the pipe surrounding the coax, your chances for survival are better when it came to the protection from arcs, smoke and direct flame.

Kinda working along the Faraday Cage idea...

:+> Andy <+: