TS DX 350 HDV enroute.. couple questions

[CB590]

You aren't close to burning it up. There is a difference between the way an amp should be run and the way they are used in general

Are you a Ham? Then; I am confused. Why would you want or need to run an amp on CB band in the first place? Do you have the best antenna that you can afford? IMO - it is the best antennas that produce the most gain that is key for good performance, since this gain is responsible for ERP ('effective radiated power'). This is why I don't use amps on CB, even though I have several. Antenna gain is legal and it is most effective to multiply available radio power; sometimes more effective than using some crummy antenna and an amp. Sorry for the questions, since you use a ham callsign as your forum name.

Having said that, a dummy load is a piece of equipment that no Ham would want be without if he were to use an amp. A reliably accurate watt meter would also be just as important.

OK; so you are going to use it on SSB on CB. Running an amp means that you are responsible for spectral purity. IOW, if you station throws off spurious emission (off freq harmonics contributing to bandwidth pollution), you are held to a higher standard than a CB operator w/o a Ham license, since you signed an agreement with the FCC after you passed your tech test.

So you can see why I'm asking all of these questions. A Ham runs an amp knowing what the input power requirements are, what the operating voltage and amperage will be. To do this, he will have to look at the published specs for the amp.

Yes. I understand. Yes I need a dummy load to get good results. But like most idiots I have no patience or deep funds.

Just asking questions. The A99 I doubt has any real gain, I read like 2dbi..

I'd rather run the amp correctly though it seems like my stock radio is just too stock.. I read it has a 3.4w or less dk stock and swings to only like 6-7.5w with factory modulation which to me sucks when basic single finals can do 12-15 pretty common and my drive the amp a little smoother.. on SSB I read it does less than 11w pep when stock..

Hard to tune for the amp when the basic radio seems like a dog..

Best case is I send it all out. Pay the $50 to have it matched and tuned by a shop.. and then have it come back and just run it. Since the new meter that cost $86 just sucked on arrival maybe I will just pay to send the radio/amp out.

 

[CB590]

Sounds to me that there is an antenna issue ..... VSWR issue anyways ....
A 3 ~ 4 watt dead key from the radio should produce about 70 ~ 75 watts dead key output on the TS 350V amplifier ( give or take some) .....And peak at about 275 ~ 300 watts ..... no dial a watt used .....
I have operated and serviced many of the Texas Star 350V amplifiers .....
I do currently have two of these on my bench, newer than two years old, that I have the Toshiba 2SC2879 transistors installed into ..... and they do perform pretty darn good ....

If that is true why does the internal meter and my external meter both say 1-1 or 1-2?? And online cbradiomag said 1w dk have him a 80w dk.

Granted I'm at 13.8vdc on the psupply.

Too many numbers on the net.. imo

Here is what the TS meter says with 60-70w dk on it's meter on AM with DAW on.. looks like a low and safe zone to me.. if I yell I can get to 6, normal is bouncing 3-4 or so..

With DAW off I get almost a solid 6 on that meter..

 

[Robb]

If that is true why does the internal meter and my external meter both say 1-1 or 1-2?? And online cbradiomag said 1w dk have him a 80w dk.

Granted I'm at 13.8vdc on the psupply.

Too many numbers on the net.. imo

Let me try to simplify matters. You cannot trust or expect answer given on the internet to be correct. I can tell you that the spec sheets for the 2879 devices should tell anyone what they should know. But people run amps and aren't so clued up on the implications of doing it right, they just go by joe blow's answer. My apologies to joe blow, but joe blow sucks!

If the manufacturer that submits their data sheet for target use in a circuit; then the engineer has a means to use them in a circuit design. All anyone has to do is look at the data sheets for the exact answer.

I recently watched a guy on YouTube use the HG and Toshiba 2879 in a comparison test against each other for power output. All he was concerned about was power output. He ran them outside of the prescribed voltage (close to 18v), but did give them all of the amperage they would draw at that voltage. He also put too much input power ('watts') into them and he recorded the outputs for comparison.

I didn't know if I should laugh out loud - or pity the fool.
I did both - lol . . .

Yes; he got higher numbers because he did all of that. But since the devices were run far out of the spec sheet for proper operation, so much of that extra power was distortion and harmonics. But he didn't care about that stuff; his goal was to just make the most power, regardless of the consequences.

This is what is wrong with CB radio operators using amps. I've dealt with local operators on this subject time and again. Showed them how to do it right, since I could not and would not stop them since they made that choice. Tuned their radios so that if they used an amp, they would be driving it correctly and they ran the proper voltage to it.

Set the modulation on the radio so that it didn't produce harmonic distortion or audio ('IMD') distortion and then set the power output so it was spot on for the amp in question. Told him to buy/use a low pass filter too. Don't know if he did everything that I'd advised him to do; but at least I don't see much distortion on the band scope, so I guess he did it right.

 

[CB590]

Let me try to simplify matters. You cannot trust or expect answer given on the internet to be correct. I can tell you that the spec sheets for the 2879 devices should tell anyone what they should know. But people run amps and aren't so clued up on the implications of doing it right, they just go by joe blow's answer. My apologies to joe blow, but joe blow sucks!

If the manufacturer that submits their data sheet for target use in a circuit; then the engineer has a means to use them in a circuit design. All anyone has to do is look at the data sheets for the exact answer.

I recently watched a guy on YouTube use the HG and Toshiba 2879 in a comparison test against each other for power output. All he was concerned about was power output. He ran them outside of the prescribed voltage (close to 18v), but did give them all of the amperage they would draw at that voltage. He also put too much input power ('watts') into them and he recorded the outputs for comparison.

I didn't know if I should laugh out loud - or pity the fool.
I did both - lol . . .

Yes; he got higher numbers because he did all of that. But since the devices were run far out of the spec sheet for proper operation, so much of that extra power was distortion and harmonics. But he didn't care about that stuff; his goal was to just make the most power, regardless of the consequences.

This is what is wrong with CB radio operators using amps. I've dealt with local operators on this subject again and again. Showed them how to do it right, since I could not and would not stop them since they made that choice. Tuned their radios so that if they used an amp, they would be driving it correctly and they ran the proper voltage to it.

Set the modulation on the radio so that it didn't produce harmonic distortion or audio ('IMD') distortion and then set the power output so it was spot on for the amp in question. Told him to buy/use a low pass filter too. Don't know if he did everything that I'd advised him to do; but at least I don't see much distortion on the band scope, so I guess he did it right.

Not trying to get crazy numbers hence the zillion questions.

Just 190-200AM and maybe a hair more on SSB..

Wishing I had a dummy load, a real meter, and adjusted radio..

All radio reports tell me good, no distortion, clear.. and that's with 4 contacts about 30 miles out and some further.. only issue they note is my audio seems low, which I account to not adjusted modulation pot..

 

[undertaker]

I have a texas Star 250 hd and I never even use it.. My antenna seems to do just fine..

 

[Robb]

Good. No audio distortion that you can hear. Let's say that it is OK. But the other distortions created that is harmful is not one that is heard in audio. It is harmonics (54mhz; that is twice the operating freq of the 27mhz/CB freq)) and spurs that the IMD distortion creates that spreads out across a wider band that CB operates in - called a 'spur' or 'spike'. Those cannot even be seen nor heard on the channel you operate on.

As a Ham, you need to be aware of this, since it is also your responsibility.

Sounds like you need to - at least - get a dummy load and maybe even a low pass filter for good measure - IMO

 

[Big Kahuna]

So I wrote this article like 8-10 years ago I think but I suspect that not much has changed - http://www.cbradiomagazine.com/Amplifier Reviews/Texas Star DX350/Texas Star 350DX Review.html

I said in my review 1 watt input 80 watt deadkey so sounds similar to what you're seeing.

Also - you were saying you had to set the deadkey to 1 watt to get the SSB delay to engage. Are you saying that when you set the deadkey low for AM and then switch to SSB that the delay isn't kicking in during pauses in your voice? There is no carrier on SSB so I wasn't sure what you were describing there.

On SSB you can run the McKinley wide open into that amp. 12-15 watts SSB PEP should work fine for that amp and so if you need to run SSB just crank the RF power to max on the radio - BUT - don't forget to turn it back down to minimum for AM so you don't key 5 watts deadkey into the amp by accident.

 

[dave457]

I said this before...... set it at 40 watt dead key, for two 2879's

 

[CB590]

So I wrote this article like 8-10 years ago I think but I suspect that not much has changed - http://www.cbradiomagazine.com/Amplifier Reviews/Texas Star DX350/Texas Star 350DX Review.html

I said in my review 1 watt input 80 watt deadkey so sounds similar to what you're seeing.

Also - you were saying you had to set the deadkey to 1 watt to get the SSB delay to engage. Are you saying that when you set the deadkey low for AM and then switch to SSB that the delay isn't kicking in during pauses in your voice? There is no carrier on SSB so I wasn't sure what you were describing there.

On SSB you can run the McKinley wide open into that amp. 12-15 watts SSB PEP should work fine for that amp and so if you need to run SSB just crank the RF power to max on the radio - BUT - don't forget to turn it back down to minimum for AM so you don't key 5 watts deadkey into the amp by accident.

Yes. When I pause in SSB it seems to drop out (aka short delay)

I have to set at least 1.5w dk to get the SSB to kick along little more to keep the relay going during pauses calling CQ DX etc..

1w AM does seem to match your numbers, but switching the RF power when I go to SSB mode is a pain..

So I leave AM set at 1.75w dk and set the variable to 3 oclock and I get a nice 70w dk when doing AM..

When running SSB I set the switch to SSB on the back and just let out the DAW switch to run full output with whatever SSB pushes with modulation..

Doesn't run hot and everyone says good audio, no chopping..

Not coming over my other radios in the same room either..

SWR at 80w dk is 1.2 or so.

 

[Handy Andy]

Yes. When I pause in SSB it seems to drop out (aka short delay)

I have to set at least 1.5w dk to get the SSB to kick along little more to keep the relay going during pauses calling CQ DX etc..

1w AM does seem to match your numbers, but switching the RF power when I go to SSB mode is a pain..

So I leave AM set at 1.75w dk and set the variable to 3 oclock and I get a nice 70w dk when doing AM..

When running SSB I set the switch to SSB on the back and just let out the DAW switch to run full output with whatever SSB pushes with modulation..

Doesn't run hot and everyone says good audio, no chopping..

Not coming over my other radios in the same room either..

SWR at 80w dk is 1.2 or so.

Isn't that what we kinda' said for you to do before?

I mean, it is your amp....

But WOW - did you simply - and not to insult here, but use the MFJ at the 30 W setting and just Radio to Antenna to see the SWR as it is from Radio to antenna. IF that is ok, thn you can presume the MFJ and the ARIES are pretty much in line and equal. Then there's this other issue you just started to post about...are you back to using the wrong coaxial jumper again?

Reasoning is in one of your pics you have something the T/S is sitting on top of so I must (Mustache) ask you - what is that little "black box" that thing is sitting on?

I see the word INDUCTANCE - is that a noise bridge? Or another amp?

I'm really confused...

 

[CB590]

Isn't that what we kinda' said for you to do before?

I mean, it is your amp....

But WOW - did you simply - and not to insult here, but use the MFJ at the 30 W setting and just Radio to Antenna to see the SWR as it is from Radio to antenna. IF that is ok, thn you can presume the MFJ and the ARIES are pretty much in line and equal. Then there's this other issue you just started to post about...are you back to using the wrong coaxial jumper again?

Reasoning is in one of your pics you have something the T/S is sitting on top of so I must (Mustache) ask you - what is that little "black box" that thing is sitting on?

I see the word INDUCTANCE - is that a noise bridge? Or another amp?

I'm really confused...

That's an unhooked unattached Dentron tuner..

Same good jumper.. other one was trashed.

I couldn't get the MFJ to set to calibrate even the base radio without amp in line even. was off.. came up short even at full clockwise as shown in that pic..

 

[Handy Andy]

Well, you were running low power like 1.2W DK or so - so now I understand...

When you bring the radio up to normal 4 watts then you'll have that F-Scale stuff although you'll have to run that Set knob pretty close to max due to it.

Right now, what does the SWR show? Because to be honest - you are in the calibration range of that meter for the radio...even at 1.2W to 2 W DK. The instructions help you set that thing for fly-weight QRP amps too - so as long as the scales are in the red and you're that close - you're fine to check for SWR.

So I'd flip that over to REF and look - because the meter is set for maximum sensitivity so that radio to antenna thru amp should show any severe "bumps" - I do the "max set" (which is was my goof on the Dummyload and scorched carpet) when I need to "tweak" the antenna for LOWEST SWR or even get a clue as to how well or flat the antenna will dip when it's resonate.

When it's resonate - even a low wattage DK will push the meter's CAL setting to full or close to top of the scale - to indicate the loading is nearly matched about the best it can be. Tells me it's ready, to throw just about anything at that system.

 

[CB590]

I did it at full stock DK of like 3.5w.. that's as far as it got in the set mode..

When flipped to SWR it said 5..

I did flip it ref..

Here's a pic of the reading.. like 1.2-1.3



From what I understand is the SWR has to be set as well at the AMP dk as well in order to get an accurate amp reading as well.

 

[Handy Andy]

I just wanted you to know the "Condition" the Antenna to radio was, before you set the amp in there.

I do that as a step when I need to check the SWR like after a storm when I yanked the coax off the radio to prevent damage from wind-noise, static or flashover...

Then when you place the amp in there in line the SWR should not skyrocket, and by the way things look, you did fine.

I just hope your satisfied - I got the impression earlier you we're pretty much "locked and loaded" for the setup.

Now it's like you re-awakened the "Beast" and had issues with the new SWR meter.

Hey...it's ok- remember the radio is a fleapower now, so not all SWR meters are going to look at the radio as a source of RF power for their power hungry needs to show Peak and AVG - let alone RMS or PMS or PEP...

Now, you say the SWR setting is "5" on SWR - yet, FWD is barely in the red - and REF gives you a 1.2 to 1.3 - so that ratio in itself shows the radio is not in danger but I'm wondering if the instructions on that thing for the "5" - seems odd when all other indications are normal SWR ratios for a typical setup...

I'll go find that manual on line to see what is up with that...

 

[Handy Andy]

Ok, back from the quikread...



Just wanted to let you know that in order to even obtain a reading - you need 3 watts of INPUT power so the metering circuit can even display any form of SWR readings.

So again, fleapower adds to this carborundrum...