TS DX 350 HDV enroute.. couple questions

[CB590]

Ok. Set my radio dk to 1.75w or so..
On AM using variable knob I set my amp dk to 60-65w.. and my mic gain is full open from the menu. Hoping I swing to 7-8w..

When running SSB I just undo the DAW knob and run on high whatever the wattage it wants. I know this stock radio isn't pushing more then 10-11w on SSB from what I read on line..

I just ordered the MFJ870 so maybe I can get better numbers next week with it..

I'm hoping the 60-65w AM drives to about 200w. And the SSB pushes like 250w..

I was glad to make several contacts up here this evening.. makes it feel worth it..

Thoughts?? Does this sound like reasonable expectations?

 

[Handy Andy]

More than reasonable - just not sure of what you use to measure...

But I can tell you the 4X figure is pretty much standard for AM, there are limits to the amount of conversion the typical T/S or any amp can convert from low-impedance output networks to high-level (50 ohms is what I referring to) and do all of that from a typical power supply in volts X amperage and all the traces, points of contact and parts involved - all of it takes a hit in performance of the amp so what you got is pretty much what you should see - nothing too unrealistic.

Hint: 60 watts x 4 = 240 watts - but that's relative in measurement because the initial to output 4 X the input takes a lot in - as input energy from sources used to power that, to convert that, into wattage - so you're looking at heating too...

It's like a law of diminishing returns. Once that threshold is reached, more effort you put into it, the less you'll get out of it.

Keep the heat down - even SSB mode it will get quite warm..

As far as FM modes, 120~180 watt DK is about what you and the amp can tolerate - else the broad banded spectrum of bandwidth it will try to reproduce and handle from a widely deviating radio can punish these amps real fast in heat production alone. So if you're not water-cooling this thing in a 50-gallon aquarium - and trying to be Howard Stern - you should be ok.

 

[CB590]

More than reasonable - just not sure of what you use to measure...

But I can tell you the 4X figure is pretty much standard for AM, there are limits to the amount of conversion the typical T/S or any amp can convert from low-impedance output networks to high-level (50 ohms is what I referring to) and do all of that from a typical power supply in volts X amperage and all the traces, points of contact and parts involved - all of it takes a hit in performance of the amp so what you got is pretty much what you should see - nothing too unrealistic.

Hint: 60 watts x 4 = 240 watts - but that's relative in measurement because the initial to output 4 X the input takes a lot in - as input energy from sources used to power that, to convert that, into wattage - so you're looking at heating too...

It's like a law of diminishing returns. Once that threshold is reached, more effort you put into it, the less you'll get out of it.

Keep the heat down - even SSB mode it will get quite warm..

As far as FM modes, 120~180 watt DK is about what you and the amp can tolerate - else the broad banded spectrum of bandwidth it will try to reproduce and handle from a widely deviating radio can punish these amps real fast in heat production alone. So if you're not water-cooling this thing in a 50-gallon aquarium - and trying to be Howard Stern - you should be ok.

A friend of mine has the same TS350 and was telling me to run full stock 3.3w dk into it and let it swing up from there.. I was thinking he's not right because I read the DAW pot is a 2.5w pot.. so over that may damage it..

I know not to move the knob when keying up.. so I key and check and key and check.

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

The dial a watt knob only works when the green button is pushed. I don't use it on mine. On my 350 a 4w dead key is 200w on the amp. I run mine at 3w which gives about 150w out and swing from there. I use it mostly on side band so I am not too worried about the high dead key.

 

[CB590]

The dial a watt knob only works when the green button is pushed. I don't use it on mine. On my 350 a 4w dead key is 200w on the amp. I run mine at 3w which gives about 150w out and swing from there. I use it mostly on side band so I am not too worried about the high dead key.

That's why I figured about 1.75w DK on AM doing variable knob putting out 65w dk. Then just click off to run SSB.

Do you think setting up a solid 2w dk pushing an 80w dk with DAW and amp on and clicking off DAW to run SSB is bad idea?? Or should I stick with my 1.5-1.75w setup??

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

That's why I figured about 1.75w DK on AM doing variable knob putting out 65w dk. Then just click off to run SSB.

Do you think setting up a solid 2w dk pushing an 80w dk with DAW and amp on and clicking off DAW to run SSB is bad idea?? Or should I stick with my 1.5-1.75w setup??

Either way 1.75w or 2 w will get you good reports even without the dial a watt. The suggested 4:1 carrier to peak ratio is to keep from pinching the carrier when running 100% modulation. If you are not running 100% modulation then you have some margin on the conservative side still. The power of the amp is rated at a 20w drive level so SSB without the dial a watt should be fine.
Chris

 

[dave457]

Those are 80w rated transistors , four to one ratio would be 40w dead key.
Why not run it within manufacturers spec.
Of transistors. Probably sound better, run cooler and last longer.
You want more power? Get a bigger amp

 

[CB590]

Either way 1.75w or 2 w will get you good reports even without the dial a watt. The suggested 4:1 carrier to peak ratio is to keep from pinching the carrier when running 100% modulation. If you are not running 100% modulation then you have some margin on the conservative side still. The power of the amp is rated at a 20w drive level so SSB without the dial a watt should be fine.
Chris

The issue is without DAW on 2w dk is giving me over 100w on my cheap Astatic meter.. which seems high to me.. hence using the DAW and keeping it down..

 

[CB590]

Those are 80w rated transistors , four to one ratio would be 40w dead key.
Why not run it within manufacturers spec.
Of transistors. Probably sound better, run cooler and last longer.
You want more power? Get a bigger amp

So your saying take the 160w rating and divide by 4 to get a 40w dk with amp on.. there HG rated at 100w.. which would be 50.. which maybe why HandyAndy suggested less than 60.. I am at 65 or so right now with cheap meter. When I get new meter I can fine tune maybe..

 

[CB590]

Here is pic with 65-70w dk.. DAW is at like 330 position with almost 2w dk from radio.. 1.2swr

 

[CB590]

Well if I do 3w or so dk based on my cheap meter I can do 3 o'clock on DAW and get my 65-70w dk on AM..

with DAW off to run SSB, my SSB kicks alot better.. and gives me a 4-8 on the front TS350 meter and shows 0 to 90w swings on the RMS meter with modulation instead of stopping at say 70w.. the 8 on the TS meter is with a whistle.. so figure 4-6 on TS meter when talking normal..

Can't wait for new meter to get here to dial this in maybe more accurately.

 

[LeapFrog]

An oscilloscope and RF sampler will allow you to see what is really happening, as in are you able to achieve 100% modulation or close to it with your dead key set as high as 65-70 watts?

A two tone test for linearity can be performed to see how well this setup functions SSB.
If you do aim to setup a bench with a scope, perform your tests using a dummy load.

Apologies if you already know these things!

 

[CB590]

An oscilloscope and an RF sampler will allow you to see what is really happening, as in are you able to achieve 100% modulation or close to it with your dead key set as high as 65-70 watts?
A two tone test for linearity can be performed to see how well this setup functions SSB.

No access to scopes. I am not willing to ship it all out as funds are nil..

Audio reports are good thus far on SSB with full mic gain.. no clipping they say or distortion.. at 3 or so DK, SSB modulation is banging my 100w RMS meter like pinball.. lol

At this point I feel I maxed out for what I got going on.. hopefully the MFJ870 coming in shows me some data..

Just made 27 mile ground contact on 38l.. said I was hitting him with a 5..

 

[Robb]

Are you gauging these results thru the antenna or thru a dummy load?
I'm guessing antenna - which isn't the proper gauge.
Do you plan to get a dummy load?

 

[w9cll]

Do you plan to get a dummy load?

Agreed all testing should be done via a dummy load. When I tune up my Yaesu I always tune into a dummy load first and then minor adjustments for the antenna.