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2970N2 Strange Problem

I had a N2 that I bought from Copper. I had them do the expand align and tune on it. When I was first trying it out I noticed the roger beep function wasn't working? I called Copper and talked to there tech.....He said it would have to be sent to Ranger.
Ranger was very quick with the repair and I noticed the rig worked way better than when I got it from Copper. Ranger also left the rig converted for CB which I found to be a surprise.
I hope they can make yours right.

Thats why i stopped dealing with Copper. In these radios they remove the converter dongle thingy and then make you have them do a "tune up" and then and only then will they install the dongle. They have cheated me one too many times so i stopped dealing with them....

p.s. Some of thier "techs" only have a Dosy meter and a few other cheapie things to work on radios with. Ive seen this first hand!:mad:
 
You would be better off letting a 3rd grader touch your radio then Copper's. LOL I would not let them touch my toaster much less a radio.

LOL Well when you have been to a couple of their co called "techs" places to see them work on radios a few times it really opens your eyes up about their "repair service". LOL.

Never again will they ever get my business........
 
Talked to Chip @ Radio Shop Supply today. He said he hasn't heard of this issue yet. Said amp stage has been the same design for long time.

He also mentioned that the issue should have shown up on a dummy load. He also stated that during their checks, they put the radio under a 2.0:1 load.

I told him that all of my other radio's (and I have a rather large assortment) and my two solid state amps all act normal on my Gainmaster and my dipole. Even my recent Palomar 450 FET showed a flat SWR on the output end. However, it had a crappy input match.

What else could possibly cause the high SWR on transmission into a nicely resonant antenna system?

I could speculate all day long. It's also strange that a local (whom I don't know) was reporting a finicky SWR with his recently purchased N2.

Could be a production run hiccup.

I haven't been in the service field for almost 15 years but I have to tell you Chip is not likely to fix this problem just by this one statement "He also mentioned that the issue should have shown up on a dummy load. He also stated that during their checks, they put the radio under a 2.0:1 load." Nothing says he doesn't understand the problem clearer than that. Perhaps you can teach him after reading this.

He first has to understand that the problem is not SWR related. The SWR is the result of the problem and not the cause of it. The problem is the transmitted signal contains the desired frequency AND spurious emissions that are far enough away from the desired frequency that a typical antenna cannot match the spurious frequencies with a good SWR.

If we test this radio into a dummy load even at 25 or 100 ohms (2:1 SWR), the problem will still be perfectly hidden from the tech because the resistive dummy load is the same impedance to both the desired frequency and the spurious frequencies. Even if Chip does not test with a spectrum analyzer or antenna, he can still spot this problem by using a antenna tuner into the dummy load.

Once you tune the antenna tuner for a good SWR into the dummy load, you have turned this wide band resistive load into a narrow band, resonant load. Now if you make a big change in frequency, the SWR will also increase noticeably. Chip will not be able to set the antenna tuner to provide a good SWR with the dummy load no matter how he tunes it because the tuner will not allow him to perfectly match two frequencies this far apart.

If he is able to "repair" the radio, another forum member has already pointed out the next test to see if it is truly stable. If the antenna tuner can provide a perfect SWR, now SLOWLY adjust the tuner for a 2:1 SWR. If at anytime you see a sharp spike in SWR or power rather than a slow increase, the amp section is still unstable.

One is going to have to think outside the box to fix this problem because you cannot go at it thinking you're going to find a bad component. This is not a bad part, it's a bad design. That could be anything from the physical layout on the board allowing RF feedback to the cheap MOSFET finals in the high power amp.

The very first thing I would consider is that this amp is attached to a radio. That alone present its own share of RF feedback problems associated with decoupling the amp from the DC power wire that also feeds the radio. Rule out the simple possibility that the "engineers" overlooked this by powering the amp section from it's own isolated power supply.

I haven't seen the inside of this particular radio but I think it has he heatsink in the bottom of the radio where the speaker would be. Someone check and see if they have a metal shield over the top of this amp section. If this has been left out and they have the high power amp right on top of the PLL section, I'd expect it to never work like that.
 
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I tried to explain the dummy load issues, but could tell he was set in his way. I'll just keep sending it back. Actually, I'll probably have to get RCI involved, or link this thread to them. I should have made a video showing what was happening.
 
I tried to explain the dummy load issues, but could tell he was set in his way. I'll just keep sending it back. Actually, I'll probably have to get RCI involved, or link this thread to them. I should have made a video showing what was happening.

When someone is so set in their incorrect way of understanding, for lack of better terms you have to run their mind right into the wall. When it doesn't compute in front of their eyes, the mind has to reexamine its mistaken thoughts. The best way to do that in this case is make sure he at least is willing to connect an antenna tuner between your radio and his dummy load. His mind will logically compute that this is a non issue. "I have an antenna tuner in front of me that is capable of matching virtually any load and all I'm asking it to do is match the perfect load. Should work no problem."

But it won't be able to simultaneously match the fundamental frequency and the spurious emissions that are causing your SWR problem. He should have the light bulb go off in his head that will force him off that one track line of thinking. I know because I was right in that spot 25 years ago.
 
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Obviously, Dave at DTB Radio should be checking his next 2970n2 this way. I was trying explain that the spurs would behave the same as the desired frequency. I'm far from being any kind of a tech, but I do know that.

I may have to call RCI and ensure that this issue is looked at appropriately. I'm not about to play ship and return until it's fixed.
 
I have a bit of a silly question, since I haven't had a 2970N2 come across my bench... are the mosfets in the PA section bolted directly to the heatsink, or are there insulators on each one? And does the 2970N2 in question have the proper RC feedback boards in place?

Just curious.


~Cheers~
 
M42Duster, any news?? I had an N2 last year that went back, Chip actually ran it in either his base or mobile before it acted up, mine was fine on his bench. He really tried to get it to act up and when I got it back it did work 100%. I have had very good luck with them in ramona ca.
 
Surprised Duster hasn't commented, just yesterday I sent a 2950DX black face green numbers to Radio Shop Supply for repairs. Got it from a relative that passed end of September, hooked it up last week and has no transmit. It's only 6 months old but without the receipt I have to pay for the repair, I don't have the nerve to ask for the receipt, Jessica quoted me 70 dollars plus shipping so I figure if I get a 6 month old 2950DX for say 100 bucks sounds like a deal for me.. The one on the top is the one I just got. Receives fine just squeals on transmit and the display starts to blink,
 

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I had a 2970 do the same swr thing after I had a tech put new finals in it. that radio would be the only radio on my Maco V5000 that would send the swr's sky high into the red the audio was fine but the radio would only do 80 watts max when it use to do 175 to 180 watts. turned out to be the alignment the tech that put in the new finals thought he was doing some bright idea stuff to it and threw it way out of alignment the second guy that re-aligned it to factory specs said that the way the other guy tuned it the spurris emissions and harmonics caused the swr problem and he was right got it back radio was back to doing 175 watts pep and swrs matched with the other radios.
 
Mine had an issue with one of the FETs. Traded it to a local whom still runs it in his pickup. He's happy, I was glad to get rid of it.

I am Ranger'ed out. Until they come out with something totally different, I'm bored.
 
Thanks RadioReddz, for the info I did look inside of it looked like someone had the bios and final driver pots all the way up, not having the correct specs here and seeing as it is a new radio I figured just let them fix it at the factory repair shop. They have done me right a few times so I am a fan of that repair place. If you put a radio in a flat rate USPS box doesn't matter how far you send it in the US so all is good.
 
I had a relatively flat swr via my Wilson 1000 magmount. Noticed when checking swr levels with the N4 model same symptoms. Needle would jump up sometimes when checking swr. Thus making it difficult to tune antenna with this radio.
 

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