This thread may be too fragmented to exchange information. Antennas, feed lines, and radio systems all work a certain way. They follow rules that cannot be broken and cannot be changed. If someone comes up with something that goes against how things really work, and this certainly happens a great deal, it is because they either are not communicating accurately or they are not measuring correctly. If someone picks one particular thing and talks about it and only it, so the thread doesn't diverge into a 10 different things, then I'm sure almost everyone could get on the same page. The problem is confining it to ONE thing at a time until that ONE thing is reasonably finished. There are seven issues I see here, although I may not have seen all of them: 1.) Receiving measurements of an antenna system 2.) Transmitting measurements of an antenna system 3.) What SWR actually does and how reactance affects SWR, and how it is measured 4.) The cause of loss 5.) Power transfer 6.) How an antenna radiates 7.) How signal-to-noise is established Each of these could take anywhere from a few pages to a few chapters to explain. My good friend Walter Maxwell, who has now passed away, spent a great deal of his retired life trying to "unconfuse" people about SWR, but people still don't get it. If we could PICK ONE THING this might become a productive exchange for most people, but I don't see that happening. I don't see that happening because some people have conclusions that completely fly in the face of how things work and they are convinced basic physics and science is meaningless. I have no idea how they got there, perhaps through incorrect measurement methods, but the end result is they are where they are. If someone could pick ONE thing, it would be possible to have a nice discussion. Otherwise, I'm afraid this is all just unproductive wasted time.