best 11meter vertical ever, period.

[Needle Bender]

Well, I'll settle this right now...

The best vertically polarized omni-directional is the Hy-gain/MFJ Penetrator 500

It's build & material quality, performance & design has stood the test of time, been discontinued and brought back to life, works low or high above ground with excellent results, isn't fickle like the Gainmaster, has quite possibly the lowest TVI due to a sharper below-radial cutoff of the RF radiation than any other 5/8 I know of, is tough enough to withstand wind that will snap an Imax, bleeds off static well through it's DC shunt ground, has about a 1.7mhz 2:1 swr bandwidth, costs less than 1/2 of an I10k and less than a Gainmaster, but only a little more than an Imax, is a full .64 wavelength tall, handles about 3kw pep, and has perhaps the coolest, most well respected name of any vertical omni on the market in the last 4 decades, and just looks cool.

All & all, it may not be the absolute best performer in all installations, but I think 1st place in the vertical omni-directional antenna hall of fame should go to the Penetrator 500.

 

[Marconi]

NB, I might agree with you, but I've never owned a HG Penetrator. What do you think the idea to place the radials higher up on the radiator is all about? In my personal experience at my location, I can get my old Starduster to working as good or better than anything else I have as long as I can get the bottom as high as the bottom of the comparison antenna. My models also show about the same results with the SD at or near the top in gain and angle, but the gain for my Sigma4 model shows the absolute best gain at the lowest angle for the models I have made, but that don't matter because nobody has any faith in modeling even though it tends to support my personal findings.

I tried to model the SP500, but the details for all the curves and twists for the matcher is complicated to model, and requires so many really short wires, that I don't think that matcher will effectively control the match for this Eznec model. Just like with my I-10K model, the SP500 pattern shows some horizontal pattern mixed in with the vertical, which I also don't quite understand. That said however, this didn't show up in these models until I added my idea for the physical matchers. I sent Henry HPSD my model of the I-10K, but he never got back to me, so I don't expect any help from him.

It was been a chore just trying to get somebody to accurately measure the two matcher wires for me, so it could be I don't have all the dimensions for the matcher correctly dimensioned. However, I think I have it close after a great deal of work piecing together how several owners of the SP500 have described it to me.

What I've done so far has an affect on the match, but it is not working anywhere like the matcher on my I-10K model. I'm not even real sure when guys talk about modeling an antenna with the matching device included, that they're referring to a physical matching design. I can't be sure, but they might be talking about a Eznec function for a circuit idea that suits the model mathematically.

Recently I asked Roy Lewallen some questions in an email, but he refuses to answer modeling type questions, procedures, or ideas. The only thing he will address, as far as help is concerned, is when the program has issues or malfunctions.

Henry HPSD tells me that there is a lot of helpful information on the Internet, but I haven't found one sensible forum where there is talk about modeling as I can understand, and if there are any guys on this forum that understand modeling, they don't seem to be talking either.

So, I'm still plugging away, trying to learn something new or different and that is why I keep asking you what you have in mind.

 

[Zman]

The sigma 4 is simply a j pole 1/2 wave. Thats all it is...............

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

think again

FMBroadcastAntenna.com | FM Broadcast Antenna's

"This antenna is perhaps the least understood of all FM broadcast antennas. Some have suggested it's just a J-Pole and that the bottom section does not radiate. Some argue the cone is a non radiating transmission line to feed the top section. Others mistake it as a 3/4 wave ground plane that would allow the bottom 1/4 wave of the main vertical section to radiate in a deconstructive phase and create a peak gain about 45 degrees above the horizon. None of these theories correctly describe the manner in which this antenna functions.

The coaxial cone serves several important functions. In some ways is does mimic a transmission line with it's ability to confine or shield radiation from the base of the center vertical radiator. Because it's tapered, it transforms the impedance of the antenna so that it can be efficiently matched to 50 ohm coax. The cone is also tuned to act as an effective counterpoise and has both transmission mode and antenna mode currents flowing through it. Transmission mode currents are confined within the cone and antenna mode currents are allowed to radiate constructively on the outside of the cone.

Let's examine how this principle allows us to simulate a collinear antenna. Normally the end fed antenna will begin to will begin to radiate from its base in a phase that is deconstructive once the wavelength is increased significantly beyond 1/2 wave. Pass this point and the peak gain begins to shift in favor of an upper 45 degree lobe where it is wasted. This is why it is essential to confine the radiation from the lower 1/4 wave section of the center vertical element. Allowing the longer top section above the cone to radiate constructively with the currents on the outside of the cone."

 

[bob85]

The sigma 4 is simply a j pole 1/2 wave. Thats all it is...............

outstanding information, thanks

 

[The DB]

The sigma 4 is simply a j pole 1/2 wave. Thats all it is...............

outstanding information, thanks

I have seen tons of good technical information on this site as to why it isn't a j-pole. However, the most technical reason I recall seeing for it to actually be a j-pole is "look at it". I personally don't think it even really looks like a j-pole...

In my opinion, if your willing to put the work into making it perform, the Sigma 4/Vector 4000 line is the best. If you just want to throw something up and have it work there are any number of other antennas to choose from.


The DB

 

[Marconi]

outstanding information, thanks

I don't get why all you guys clicked a "like" on Bob's remarks?

I think he must be smoking dope or breathing in to much solder smoke.

I respectfully disagree with Zman's idea that the Sigma 4, is nothing but a J-Pole, or a coaxial J-Pole, but I could be convinced with a good understandable argument to the contrary.

I would suggest there is not much difference among all the CB vertical antennas I own, including my Sigma 4, but a J-Pole is no Sigma4, period.

I've got <gotproof>, but I'm waiting on Needle Bender to get through with his testing on his idea regarding the Vector/Sigma4 design, radiating or not at the bottom cone.

If you study this antenna closely, you might not be able to fully understand or be able to explain the differences easily or simply, but you would have to be blind not to see there is a point in performance where the Sigma 4, does something no J-Pole will ever dream of working over real Earth, that is unless maybe you effectively stack two in phase 1/2 wave elements...configured like a J.

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

"I don't get why all you guys clicked a "like" on Bob's remarks?'

we appreciate his sarcasm .

 

[hotrod]

Well, I'll settle this right now...

The best vertically polarized omni-directional is the Hy-gain/MFJ Penetrator 500

It's build & material quality, performance & design has stood the test of time, been discontinued and brought back to life, works low or high above ground with excellent results, isn't fickle like the Gainmaster, has quite possibly the lowest TVI due to a sharper below-radial cutoff of the RF radiation than any other 5/8 I know of, is tough enough to withstand wind that will snap an Imax, bleeds off static well through it's DC shunt ground, has about a 1.7mhz 2:1 swr bandwidth, costs less than 1/2 of an I10k and less than a Gainmaster, but only a little more than an Imax, is a full .64 wavelength tall, handles about 3kw pep, and has perhaps the coolest, most well respected name of any vertical omni on the market in the last 4 decades, and just looks cool.

All & all, it may not be the absolute best performer in all installations, but I think 1st place in the vertical omni-directional antenna hall of fame should go to the Penetrator 500.

i agree.

 

[Marconi]

"I don't get why all you guys clicked a "like" on Bob's remarks?'

we appreciate his sarcasm .

Yep, that is sort of what I thought you guys were doing, ganging up.

BM, a while back I got the idea that you considered I was being sarcastic toward you, right? Did you appreciate it when my sarcasm was directed toward you? If you realized it...probably not.

I've had my own issues with some of Zman's comments, but I would hope we could still allow him his opinion. I don't think it is wise for us to make things personal right off the bat, I already sense animosity on the rise here on WWDX, and that really cuts into the conversations I like to enjoy when I visit here to discuss antennas, disagreeing or not, and without being disagreeable.

Don't you guys get enough of this type of agitation just watching reality TV? Personally, I'm sick of it.

My parents taught me, "...if I don't have anything good to say, or I can't defend my ideas or opinions without animus, then consider to say nothing at all." Try first, to do unto other's as you would have them do unto you...is generally a pretty good rule to follow.

Now, don't we all feel better?

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

Yep, that is sort of what I thought you guys were doing, ganging up.

BM, a while back I got the idea that you considered I was being sarcastic toward you, right? Did you appreciate it when my sarcasm was directed toward you? If you realized it...probably not.

I've had my own issues with some of Zman's comments, but I would hope we could still allow him his opinion. I don't think it is wise for us to make things personal right off the bat, I already sense animosity on the rise here on WWDX, and that really cuts into the conversations I like to enjoy when I visit here to discuss antennas, disagreeing or not, and without being disagreeable.

Don't you guys get enough of this type of agitation just watching reality TV? Personally, I'm sick of it.

My parents taught me, "...if I don't have anything good to say, or I can't defend my ideas or opinions without animus, then consider to say nothing at all." Try first, to do unto other's as you would have them do unto you...is generally a pretty good rule to follow.

Now, don't we all feel better?

if i did unto salma hayak as i would have her do unto me i would be in jail :headbang

the golden rule really isn't so golden when you think about it .


if you want to equate sarcasm with the crap that goes on in other forums you go right ahead ...............

 

[The DB]

Yep, that is sort of what I thought you guys were doing, ganging up.

I wouldn't go that far, ganging up seems a bit harsh...

I've had my own issues with some of Zman's comments, but I would hope we could still allow him his opinion. I don't think it is wise for us to make things personal right off the bat, I already sense animosity on the rise here on WWDX, and that really cuts into the conversations I like to enjoy when I visit here to discuss antennas, disagreeing or not, and without being disagreeable.

Opinions, he gave his, I gave mine, its all good.

Don't you guys get enough of this type of agitation just watching reality TV? Personally, I'm sick of it.

Why would I waste my time watching TV?

My parents taught me, "...if I don't have anything good to say, or I can't defend my ideas or opinions without animus, then consider to say nothing at all." Try first, to do unto other's as you would have them do unto you...is generally a pretty good rule to follow.

Now, don't we all feel better?

Your parents did well to teach you that.

I think you are reading to much into nothing. That being said, that is just my opinion. I am not ganging up on anyone. I'm more of a loner than anything else, if I liked something that is because for whatever reason I actually liked that something, weather it be good information or good humor. I think you will find that true with the others as well.


The DB

 

[Robb]

"I don't get why all you guys clicked a "like" on Bob's remarks?'

we appreciate his sarcasm .

Yep.
Bob85 had to endure many a question on the radiation pattern and reasons for the construction of the Sigma IV. Perhaps someone could find that link and post it up here? Explains everything.

 

[Marconi]

DB, I think you missed my point, but I've said my piece.

I don't happen to disagree with your ideas about the performance I see with my Sigma 4, if we get right down to the netty-gritty. I say that in spite of the fact that I personally don't see the big differences other's see either. That's just my experience and my opinion. I have take my share of ribbing about my reports too, and I feel I too get the dismissive response at times.

I also understand how Bob might feel the same, because even with the results that Robb mentioned, we are still not able to be totally convincing for our detractors in what we think we see going on with the Vector/Sigma 4.

My concern is that the dismissive type sarcasm, is sure to lead to bitter type responses that will just entrench any further understanding or the lack thereof on this issue. Bob and a few others have been fretting over their ideas for some time on this issue even when most realize that the Vector/Sigma 4 is among the tops in performance.

It goes, that I understand Needle Bender is planning what he calls a once and for all, beyond all doubt, type demonstration for how the Sigma 4 works in the cone area. The aim is to answer if the cone radiates constructively or not.

I didn't wish a big fight start here, before NB had his say, and muddy the waters, so-to-speak. Bob knows the principals involved here, and basically the slant that each holds, maybe he is just tired of arguing the point, and choose to be dismissive with Zman, a likely target, and get things started, but hopefully I'm wrong, cause I'm just guessing.

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

http://www.worldwidedx.com/cb-antennas/31799-avanti-sigma4-alternative-view-point.html

whats best for one or 1million doesn't mean it's best in every single location/install and for some folks performance is not their biggest priority . "the best" anything is very subjective and sometimes what really is best is simply too expensive or not as visually attractive as something else or the effort is too intimidating .




"Needle Bender is planning what he calls a once and for all, beyond all doubt, type demonstration for how the Sigma 4 works in the cone area."

absolutely no disrespect to NB , but one test done by anyone is hardly conclusive across the board . having said that i have FAITH NB will get the results that the commercial makers of the sigma style claim .